Comments for Crimes draw ire of downtown merchant, JoDu administration at http://www.theind.com , comment 1 to 57 out of 20 comments http://www.theind.com Thu, 20 Jun 2013 05:20:01 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-5643 Crime downtown is an issue, but how much of it are the bars responsible for? It seems like the city should address the issues causing criminality instead of blaming the bars. Downtown is an older and rougher area, but the people committing crimes don't care why someone is downtown. The issue bars create is that people are downtown at night. If you have any business that brings people downtown at night should you require them to pay police? Should restaurants open after certain times have police protection? I am quite disgruntled about most of what has been suggested to address this issue, but I will say that I am tired of the trash downtown. The reason glass bottles are outlawed is because people are too stupid to throw away their own crap. People are still too stupid to throw away plastic cups, but at least they don't cause flat tires. Until people can throw away their own stuff, I think to go cups should not be allowed. I am 20 and have gone to bars downtown since I was 18. I have no urge to drink but I pay a cover to watch bands or hang out with my friends. I have not committed any crimes in those two years and no crimes have been committed against me downtown. The reason downtown has been revitalized is because of the bars. If you target them you will lose a vital part of the Lafayette economy. - Lafayette resident Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:18:24 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-5640 Is the government prepared to compensate bar owners for interfering with business? - Matt Roberts Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:59:18 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4569 Julie Calzone: Let me first say that if the bar owners did not care about security, I hardly think that THEY WOULD HAVE COME TOGETHER WITH THE CITY in less than 6 months formulate and implement a plan to pay for police protection, something every other bar owner in every other city (no matter how populated their street is with bars) is entitled to and pays nothing for. 6th street in Austin has over 140 bars on one street - they pay 0.00 for their police. I'm pretty sure rather than being cooperative like the bar owners here were, many others would have revolted until Kingdom come. I would, however, be very interested in knowing when (exactly) you purchased property Downtown, Julie? I know I purchased mine AFTER the revitalization project was complete and people started "noticing" downtown, WHICH THE BARS HAPPENED A BIG PART OF. Had someone said in 1985 "Hey, you want to invest in some property downtown... I would have given them directions to the nearest psychiatric hospital and then recommend they get their head examined" Julie, what made you decide to reside downtown? Was it the empty buildings of the 1980's??? Vagrants on every corner walking the desolate streets all night? I don't think so. Just the mere fact that they bent over and took the 'unconstitutional levy' like champs shows that patron security is a priority. What good would it do them to not be? Think about it! - Another Downtown PROPERTY Owner Sat, 05 Dec 2009 07:32:00 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4550 Listen folks, banning 18-20 year old from downtown is about as smart as the dumb asses who voted out video poker in Lafayette Parish. That is why 75% of the folks in the casinos are from Lafayette. We have no video poker and the outlining areas that do get all the tax revenue. Why do you think Evangline Downs is now in St. Landry Parish? It was the Lafayette Chamber of Commerce and the local church leaders who were against this. The taxes alone could have payed many more police and provided more lighted streets. The same folks who were against this are now wanting the bars to pay for security. (which is bulls*** anyway and probably unconstitional) Death to all additional taxes, rate increases and political bullshit!! What say you boy!! - northsidian Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:20:33 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4539 also to mrs calzone, for you to say the bars dont care is as stupid as saying elvis is alive! Our main concern is the safety of our customers. If i know someone has been kicked out for causing a disturbance we do not let that person back to our place at all. You are starting to sound like all these other people that go to bed at 9pm by saying that none of the bars care about security/safety of downtown - downtownmanager Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:32:17 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4538 to Mrs CALZONE i live downtown and am totally aware of the problems downtown. The problem isnt the 18 to 20 year olds its the bums that ask you for $$ every two seconds and the slap on the wrist they recieve when cops are called out. I am on the buchanan end of downtown and im sure im not in the "higher end of downtown" you live in. Im sure the live music and major crowds that gather at the Filling station are to much for you to handle. - downtownmanager Fri, 04 Dec 2009 09:28:14 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4537 Unempirical Observer, You make an excellent point at the end. That is exactly what will happen... Instead of being within a five to eight mile radius of their homes, the (kids) will begin driving to Baton Rouge, Lake Charles, and any parish below,above, or inbetween where they can go out! Now you will have all of these eighteen to twenty yr olds (that MIND YOU usually only have only "2-3" years of driving experience,) drinking and driving to these far away places. CAN YOU IMAGINE THIS? TRAFFIC FATALITIES WILL SKYROCKET ! Ask the people from North Louisiana (who have enacted 21 and over laws in a couple cities there) with a neighboring parish of an eighteen admittance age. THEY WILL TELL YOU ! Those kids will hop in a car and drive for hours (and usually drink on the way) to go and party in their neighboring parish! Not hard to motivate them into doing so. I mean, what's the alternative? To just stay home? People, for this 21 thing to work, and to make a real change in an irresponsible culture, WE HAVE GOT TO DO IT STATE WIDE !! Any other attempt is going to create "pockets" of bars everywhere and traffic fatalities will skyrocket! - A.C. Fri, 04 Dec 2009 05:02:51 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4534 Layla R elicits a few other thoughts from me. She makes a good point about the federal actions to raise the drinking age and about the bar situation. 1st: Good point on the drinking age. While we suffer from a culture of personal irresponsibility with respect to alcohol consumption, the federal mandates were well meaning, to cut down on the number of alcohol related driving fatalities. America is a car-dependent culture. We neglect public transporation and traditional city building, which are the background variables which factor in to this issue. Our brothers and sisters up in Canada as in France, and many other non-American locales, maintain an 18 or younger alcohol possession, consumption, and purchasing minimum. One would be hard pressed to say they are more fatally burdened than we are now. So, others deal with their issues differently than we do. The Feds aren't going to change the highway incentive anytime soon, and Louisiana is not going to be the darling to lead the nation in that fight. 2nd: One problem with the bars and the city agreement with them to pay for extra security is that to some extent, a captive audience exists downtown. Several years ago when the bars were proliferating, the council and mayor imposed a restriction, capping the number of bars downtown. Properties could not become a bar thereafter unless they already were a bar. This has meant many establishments have had to diversify their activities into restauranteuring. The point is, with this captive audience, the commercial operating environment downtown is less free and thus, slightly more captive, to any demands by the city for extra police pay. TO close again, really, let's get rid of the "Go-Cups" and let's stagger the operating schedule at the bars. Why should we allow alcohol sales right up until the hour of closure, (where the police hastily summon all remaining persons to move on out, to their cars one would imagine, where they await DUI charges.) Alcohol sales should cut off 30-60 minutes before bar closure. The closure time need not be 2am as it is now. Even 30 minutes would allow for drinkers to complete their drinks, and eliminating go-cups would take away the last call drink to go. Has anyone else researched this, or are there mostly emotional appeals, rants, and threats on these boards? P.S. Any entry standard to the bars would probably have to be city-wide. It would be surprising to see the LCG, acting on behalf of the City of Lafayette, enact an age increase limited to only the Downtown Development Authority political sub-district. But then again, who knows what is legally possible. But then, we'll probably send all the kids back to Maurice or god knows where. - Unempirical Observer Fri, 04 Dec 2009 02:12:09 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4532 I feel there is enough police presence downtown. Only if they would spread out more instead of wasting 10 to 15 minutes per ticket for windown tint, seat belts and head light violations they would be able to patrol the side streets... - downtownmanager Fri, 04 Dec 2009 00:38:19 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4527 Why is no one looking at the biggest picture? Anytime you have a growing city, you need to hire additional police officers. Hello CITY/PARISH GOVERNMENT ????? HELLLLOOOOOOO???????? You're telling me of the 70 million dollars Lafayette takes in annually just on sales tax, more officers cannot be hired? Maybe if millions were not spent on projects like museums (that no one visits) that cannot even financially sustain themselves when comelete, there would be more money for officers! How can you expect certain citizens to be taxed more than they already are for police??? So what if a new "bar strip" opens somewhere ??? You'll have the same problem if you do not hire more police. More businesses pay more taxes therefore the city should hire more police officers. Stop breaking the police department's back. Give them more officers! You cannot tell me that Lafayette doesn't have the money. Lafayette is one of the strongest, most progressive cities in the nation ! - Jim R. Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:54:53 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4526 Jessie - (who commented above) Let me educate you a little on THE STATE OF LOUISIANA. The drinking age here used to be 18. It was changed to 21 when our UNITED STATES FEDERAL GOVERNMENT threatened to pull Louisiana's highway money if the state did not raise the drinking age. In true Louisiana tradition, the Louisiana lawmakers found a loophole. Louisiana did not want to lose the highway money, but also did not want to lose the tax money from the 18-20 yr olds WHO PARTY IN BARS. So LOUISIANA, dude, (let me highlight it) LOUISIANA LOUISIANA LOUISIANA made the "18 to party 21 to drink law." How can you sit there and blame the bar owners for a problem LOUISIANA Legislature's greed created? 18-20 yr olds have been partying since before the Civi War........... Say Downtown Lafayette raised the admittance age to 21.... what do you think every bar in the city of Lake Charles, Baton Rouge, etc, and all Johnston Street bars and all other bars in south Lafayette and surrounding towns would do ??? - You think they would raise to 21 also? No !!! they wouldn't... They would scratch their heads and laugh at how stupid of a solution that would be..... They would actually laugh... So if you were a bar owner, what would you do? Honestly? And you wanna call out bars that SERVE to minors? Do your homework moron... 2 of the 4 bars you named HAVE NEVER EVEN RECEIVED ONE CITATION FOR SERVING TO A MINOR! Karma HAS NEVER BEEN ISSUED A CITATION FOR SERVING TO A MINOR! City Bar HAS NEVER BEEN CITED FOR SERVING TO A MINOR! Marley's had 1 citation in 8 frickin years... Stan's... 2 citations in 5 yrs... Nitetown... same thing IT'S PUBLIC RECORD... GO CHECK IT !!! Am I saying that it hasn't ever or doesn't ever happen??? Of course not - I am realistic! BUT IF IT WAS AS WIDESPREAD AS YOU MAKE IT SEEM IN YOUR RIDICULOUS 90% CALCULATION, DON'T YOU THINK THERE WOULD BE MORE CITATIONS TO THOSE BARS??? Believe me, there are hundreds of regularly occurring state, as well as, city undercover operations in bars - the police are not that stupid, man. That's also the purpose of having bar cards and required responsible server training... If no responsibility was given to the bartender, there would be absolute NO NEED for them to have PERMITS... and of those bar owner's that I know that have been cited, those employees that broke the law were FIRED ON THE SPOT !!! The point is ANYONE THAT POINTS THE FINGER AT DOWNTOWN FOR THESE PROBLEMS IS IGNORANT. YOU WANT TO FIX THE PROBLEM-CHANGE THE ENTIRE STATE TO "21 TO ENTER EXCEPT IF YOU ARE IN THE MILITARY..." IF YOU CAN DIE FOR YOUR COUNTRYMEN, YOU CAN PARTY WITH THEM. GO PREACH THAT TO OUR LEGISLATURE, JESSIE... stop being IGNORANT. Oh, and another thing Jessie - Lafayette, Louisiana is THE ONLY PLACE IN THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES that is requiring it's citizens to PAY EXTRA TAXES for police security... Do you know the last time business owners were REQUIRED TO PAY FOR SECURITY? - THE MOB, New York genius... that's how the mob started... extorting money.... Why don't you go onto google, type in the first city (not in Louisiana) that comes into your mind... Call their city hall and ask if they require their business owners IN A CERTAIN PART OF TOWN to pay additional taxes FOR POLICE? Time them on how long it takes for them to start laughing or be dumbfounded at your question... I want to know... My money is on less than a 2 seconds. The fact is, you have no idea how much those guys and gals paid (OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKETS AND OUT OF GOODWILL) in 2009. It is over $200,000.00 my man... Over $200 k of UNCONSTITUTIONAL, ADDITIONAL TAXES spread over 17 barowners' shoulders, MY MAN... I'm not really trying to hate on you, but you need to research before you rant.... Oh, and another thing Jessie - Lafayette, Louisiana is THE ONLY PLACE IN THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES that is requiring it's citizens to PAY EXTRA TAXES for police security... Do you know the last time business owners were REQUIRED TO PAY FOR SECURITY? - THE MOB, New York genius... that's how the mob started... extorting money.... Why don't you go onto google, type in the first city (not in Louisiana) that comes into your mind... Call their city hall and ask if they require their business owners IN A CERTAIN PART OF TOWN to pay additional taxes FOR POLICE? Time them on how long it takes for them to start laughing or be dumbfounded at your question... I want to know... My money is on less than a 2 seconds. The fact is, you have no idea how much those guys and gals paid (OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKETS AND OUT OF GOODWILL) in 2009. It is over $200,000.00 my man... Over $200 k of UNCONSTITUTIONAL, ADDITIONAL TAXES spread over 17 barowners' shoulders, MY MAN... I'm not really trying to hate on you, but you need to research before you rant.... - Layla R. Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:45:11 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4518 I have been working in a bar for ten years now can agree that some of the blame is bars, but not the biggest. Don't the bars downtown pay lots of money for "security." It's the police's job to take of vagrants and such. They don't. They stand around and watch all the pretty girls walk by. Downtown bars bring more money than do problems. Every festival, holiday, or special event is amplified by the presence of the bars. Our city is growing n with that comes problems. Our parish president promised more security downtown and never delivered it. You shut down downtown n the strip guess what? It's just going to move somewhere else. The bars helped make downtown beautiful. Some people in this world wake pissed off because there old n grumpy. Get over yourself. You shut us down you will have the biggest shit storm this town has every seen!!!! - Scott R Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:49:12 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4514 I have only one question to ask? Of everyone who is commenting on this article, who lives, works or owns a business in the downtown district? Do you experience the impact of the bars on your daily life? We love being an entertainment district, but want what everyone else wants - safety, security and peace. The bars don't care - honestly. - Julie Calzone Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:38:41 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4492 Jo-Du wouldn't last a week on the Northside. Jo-Du is a member of the LSC(lucky sperm club)who inherited his Daddy's Business!! What say you boy!! P.S. I am so glad that the people realize the Jo-Du is being pimped by the used furniture dude!! - northsidian Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:45:59 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4486 O.M.G. Dah police confront ah real-life robber ? Dey back-up ta git their paycheck, dere like lil school girls at recess at de downtown scene ogling da lil girls lak sum, PEDies!!!!! There hasn't been ah real COP in lafayette since "CARLO LISTI" ! Ya'll being too hard on JOEY, he's outta hiss environment!!!!!!! HE wanted ta go ta HEAVEN, but he don't know how ta pray!!! SENTENTIOUS SAUNTER, can't give no mo free passes!!!!!!!!!!! - NORTHSIDIAN SHOTGUN : Wed, 02 Dec 2009 22:36:41 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4465 When Festival International rolls around you'll have to limit that to 21 and over too using that flawed logic in the article. Boycott the Jefferson St. Market and Rob Robinson. Something smells rotten with that article and we're not in Denmark. - Marty C. Wed, 02 Dec 2009 05:48:22 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4460 I have to say...that after reading this article, I am infuriated....as someone who has a vested interest in Downtown, and as a citizen of Lafayette! Many of my friends and family work Downtown........and own bars Downtown. This does not make them bad people! This does not mean that their work should be belittled by a fellow Downtown Business Owner, much less the City Parish President! Not once, has a bar owner EVER stated that another business Downtown should close or move because they are essentially 'bringing down property value and causing more trouble than they're worth.' Bars/Nightclubs have just as much right to be Downtown as any other Tax Paying Establishment. And honestly, those Bars/Nightclubs probably pay more Taxes and bring in more Revenue to the Downtown area than ANY of the current establishments on a given week. The Bars and Nightclubs have not only given Downtown life again, but they have provided income for unemployed persons, activity between the hours of 10p and 2a, and provide Sales (and yes, Sales Taxes) to the Lafayette area. In today's economy, I find it astonishing that anyone would be making it more difficult to make money and establish a business. Since when is it a bad thing to want to be a successful entrepreneur?! The rest of the country is in a Recession...yet...Joey Durel is trying to close down thriving businesses in the Downtown Area?! Really? I must have been sleeping during that lesson in Economics Class! Let's think about this........if we remove the Bars/Nightclubs from Downtown, not only will we have empty buildings, which DROPS Property Values for the area, but it will affect the businesses that thrive on sales from those bars. So the employees of Crescent Crown, Republic, Schilling, Regent Broadcasting, Citadel Broadcasting, Bar Needs Companies, and so many more, would suffer as well. It will also only take money from Lafayette, and relocate it to Baton Rouge, New Orleans and other surrounding areas. With the Bars/Nightclubs Downtown, there are people coming to Lafayette from those very cities, spending their money in Lafayette, supporting the Lafayette economy! There is nothing wrong with having Bars/Nightclubs Downtown. What is wrong, is blaming them for something they truly have no control over. Bars/Nightclubs are the reason there is extra security Downtown.....Security that they pay for! The restaurants that are open until 2a benefit 100% because they don't have to pay for the 'Downtown Detail', and yet they get increased security, plus no one blames them for crime in the area. Bars and Nightclubs don't mind paying for security to keep their customers safe. Since the "new" Downtown Detail was implemented earlier this year, the increased security has done little to keep the area any safer. When a fight breaks out and officers are needed, Bar/Nightclub Managers literally have to chase down an officer. Seriously, I've seen it done. Now I understand that the costs of this Detail are going up. Really?!? And how is the Durel Administration/Chief of Police justifying this price increase? They are legitimizing their presence Downtown by writing more tickets for Window Tint, Seat Belts and expired Inspection Stickers. So when it goes up for review again next year, they can show how many tickets they've written, and how important their presence is. Is this really what the LPD/Detail is being paid for?? I thought it was for "security" purposes! As for the 18-20 year olds being banned......that is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of. How are you going to enforce that?! John Milton, mentioned that barring the 18-20 year olds would be a huge first step. HOW?! Is he saying that the majority of the criminals are 18-20 year old bar patrons? That's a pretty bold statement! And a very inaccurate one. And, 18-20 year olds are not the only people that the criminals prey on. So eliminating them from the area will make little to no difference in the criminal activity. Joey Durel mentions that he doesn't have any support from the Council. Probably because the Council knows that making the Bars/Nightclubs leave Downtown is NOT the answer. He wants people to take a stand. Well...we need to be the ones to do it! Take a stand to KEEP the Bars/Nightclubs Downtown. Take a stand to keep businesses alive in Lafayette & people employed. ALL BUSINESSES! Maybe we should review the 'Justice' that Joey Durel has done for Lafayette...and take a stand to remove him...... - Infuriated With An Inside Perspective Wed, 02 Dec 2009 04:25:39 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4457 Why does the Diner think their clients can park at the library? This is a dangerous pedestrian pathway with the high speed of Congress and the curve in the road. Doesn't the Diner have to provide parking like any other business? Why is the library bathroom so used and abused by the homeless clients of Mr. Robison's AOC? Maybe if a board member wasn't being paid $1100 to rent his bldg, there could be $$ for port o lets? Maybe if it didn't cost $1Million across two years to run "Tossed and Found" (which merely takes in donations and sells items with all volunteer effort) there could be money for round the clock security? How can that operation cost so much? Maybe if the people at the very well funded, INCLUDING MY TAX MONEY, nonprofit (what a misnomer!!) "church" didn't take a cut of the very expensive party, money could be found for security?! $35,000 in "staff development" could have developed some policing opertunities! (did that about cover an Oxford degree?) Get your NGO to straighten up OR CLOSE DOWN COMPLETELY!!! - realitychecks Wed, 02 Dec 2009 03:40:27 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4456 I THOUGHT THE MAFIA WAS GONE BUT HERE IN LAFAYETTE THE MAFIA IS PARISH GOVERNMENT. 15 YEARS AGO DOWNTOWN WAS A GHOST TOWN NOW BARS AND RESTURANTS BRING PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE THE WORLD. DOWNTOWN ALIVE IS A HIT, BARS AND RESTURANTS HAVE GREAT BUSINESS AND BRING IN GREAT TAX REVENUE. CITY GOVERNMENT WANTS TO HURT PEOPLE WHO HAVE PUT THIER LIFE SAVINGS IN A BUSINESS AND EMPLOYE MORE STUDENTS AND PEOPLE THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE. DOWNTOWN BUSINESS [BARS] PAY DEARLY TO HAVE COPS DOWNTOWN WHEN DRUG SELLERS ON THE NORTH SIDE PAY NOTHING TO OPERATE. YOU IN LAFAYETTE NOT ONLY NEED NEW LEADERSHIP IN THE POLICE DEPT BUT IN CITY HALL. CLOSE THE BARS EARLY BECAUSE THEY ROB, MURDER, SELL DRUGS AND PAY NO TAXES--- BUT THE BARS EMPLOY, PAY TAXES AND BUY A PERMIT TO OPERATE AND YOU THE PARISH PRESIDENT WANT TO CLOSE THEM DOWN. IWONDER IF THEY CLOSED ALL PET SHOPS WHEN YOU HAD YOUR BUSINESS IF YOU WOULD HAVE HAD A FIT. WE NOW HAVE TO HAVE A DOG POND TO PICK UP ALL THE DOGS YOU SOLD THAT PEOPLE DID NOT WANT. IT IS A CRYING SHAME THAT EVERYONE LOOKS AT THE BARS WHEN THINGS GO WRONG. THE BARS PAY EXTRA FOR SECURITY AND GET NOTHING IN RETURN.RAPES HAPPEN AT THE MALL AND WE DO NOT SHUT THEM DOWN. THE CITY GETS SUED FOR BEATING UP BUSINESS PEOPLE AND NO COP GOES TO JAIL.WAKE UP WHO IS THE PROBLEM THE BUSINESS OR GOVERNMENT?????????????????? WAKE UP LAFAYETTE TAKE CARE OF THE PEOPLE THAT PAY TAXES NOT THE DRUG DEALERS AND DEAD BEATS DOWNTOWN.......WHY MINORS ARE BEING SERVED AT BARS NOT DOWNTOWN AND NOTHING BEING DONE. WHY IS CAJUNDOME STILL OPEN AND DOES NOT PAY SALES TAX...... OPEN YOUR EYES LAFAYETTE.............. - bar owner NOT IN LAFAYETTE PARISH THANK GOD Wed, 02 Dec 2009 03:20:10 +0100 http://www.theind.com/home/5277#comment-4454 To the owner of Jefferson Street Market: "this community has tacitly condoned the prolifieration of a criminal enterprise (bars, who by and large flaunt the laws — sneer at them — while stuffing their pockets at the expense of law abiding citizens and taxpayers) which has erupted into a contagion of lawlessness." Are you referring to the chucklehead who was running Karma and Marleys? The law definitely caught up with him. If you're alluding to all of downtown being some sort of Wild West scenario then it sounds more like you're trying to turn this into a moral issue. These bars are privately owned, government regulated LEGAL business, not some Mafia fronted Speakeasies. "This last hold up occurred in the parking lot of the public library. Why not close it? Why should the taxpayers provide parking for the bar owner’s patrons?" What? So the people who park at the library don't pay taxes too? Isn't the library a public service funded by taxpayer dollars? They have every right to park there! To all those who are pointing fingers at the homeless: Weren't the young ladies who were robbed at gunpoint in the library parking lot last week set upon by someone who pulled up in a vehicle? I'm downtown fairly often and I'm pretty sure none of those vagrants drive. There is certainly a problem with bums downtown but honestly they aren't the ones who are robbing and mugging people. I'm out there fairly often and I usually see the same scraggly dudes panhandling and busking. If any of them tried that they're be pretty easy to spot. None of these proposed "solutions" are addressing the actual problem of crime in the downtown area. No one is going to get mugged on Jefferson Street, certainly not in the immediate vicinity of the bars or around large crowds. This stuff happens on the side streets and in the unwatched parking lots. There needs to be more police presence not ON Jefferson street but in the outlying areas where crimes are more likely to occur. - DreDay Wed, 02 Dec 2009 02:39:10 +0100