Comments for Hebert takes aim at immigration at http://www.theind.com , comment 1 to 20 out of 20 comments http://www.theind.com Tue, 18 Jun 2013 22:48:00 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9831 resident-- fair enough, I think you're right that businesses hiring illegals is the problem here. The Arizona law addresses that by providing specific penalties for both businesses and individuals who hire illegals. Also, I think the Arizona law makes every attempt to ensure that the racial profiling that everyone is so worried about will not occur. But to say that a man is a racist, or hates Mexicans, because he wants to enforce federal immigration laws is an adhominem attack. So with that statement, you have shown a "complete disregard for logic". - ragin_cajun Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:00:32 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9813 Ragin, I don't think I'm using appeals to emotion or cliches in saying that the root of the problem is businesses who hire illegal aliens, and I think that's pretty logical based on what I've learned about the subject. The terms "lawful contact" or "lawful stop" are ambiguous, unless Arizona has defined exactly what they means and what they don't mean as it relates to this particular law. If they have provided exact descriptions, then I would concede the point. I don't know what you are quoting in the first paragraph, but it doesn't seem to be legalese. The thing I can appreciate about Arizona's law is that it is forcing the issue. Let's not forget that some elements of the Border Patrol are very corrupt. - Resident Tue, 24 Aug 2010 06:46:36 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9812 OH HO! Not all illeglas are hispanic! The ones I know happen to be European - Russian and Irish! So the racial issue holds no water with me. I AM TOTALLY AGAINST ILLEGAL ALIENS and "Immigration" had never stopped sending them back to whence they came from. I will, and have, supported law abiding people who want to be citzens. In the 70s I went with my mom to help Vietnamese and Laotian refugees get to citizenship classes and English classes. Another problem I have, those who want to be here but make no effort to speak English or assimilate into the culture. I have no use for people like that and am absolutely against taxpayer support. I consider those illegals, criminals. And the first thing we should do is get rid of "anchor" babies. Any baby born in the US to "illegals" should be considered illegal and shipped to whereever we ship the parents. Those anchor baby parents think US citizens are stupid. I also think immigrants should be very limited. Let them stay in their own country and work to make that country better. I have no problem with supporting "their culture" and I think they should preserve their culture, as long as its done within the regulations of citizenship. If you break one law in a country you have no regard for, its easy to break any other laws you don't agree with. Homie don't buy that.... - BoFred Tue, 24 Aug 2010 06:25:44 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9806 Resident-- " a lawful contact is one that is authorized, sanctioned, or not forbidden by law. Picking out a person from a crowd and asking for their ID because they “look brown” is not authorized or sanctioned, and is forbidden by law." The reason why "they were so ambiguous" with the original wording is because that is the wording used in countless other federal and state laws. I hear that every state in the union has laws on the books that use the term "lawful contact". It's all over federal law books. So why don't you try a little "Dispassionate examination of subject matter", and stop with the "appeals to emotion, superficial cliches and complete disregard for logic". This is not a secret conspiracty by the White Man to keep the Brown Man down. This is a state trying to find a way to enforce existing Federal Law because the Federal Government can't or won't. - ragin_cajun Mon, 23 Aug 2010 17:23:56 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9804 Ragin, the wording of the law is sufficiently ambiguous so as to allow officers to demand papers on a whim. I can't even believe they tried "lawful contact" first. Why do you think they were so ambiguous with the wording? Even a "lawful stop" (note that this is separate from "detention" and "arrest") could mean anything. - Resident Mon, 23 Aug 2010 15:18:54 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9801 SPARROW, YOU ARE QUITE WELCOME AND YOU RAGIN_CAJUN ," YOU ARE AS AMERICAN AS A FRENCH FRY, I have warned "le Sparrow, to desist from engaging in any argumentive discussion with you, on any topic, be it religious or man made Legalise, for it takes two fools to spend life's precious moments in an asinine argumentatve debate on whether a man made law, is morally correct.......Oh Ragin _Cajun, i am a descendant of an illegal who arrived here in 1492, you want to show me yours and i'll show you mine, hopefully you are of the femine variety.......... - NORTHSIDIAN SHOTGUN Mon, 23 Aug 2010 14:42:46 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9800 I get it now, Sparrow. You and Resident are TRYING to be stupid, right? Since the Spanish were so nice to your ancestors...tell me...how do you feel about the Spanish-American war? As for your second observation, it's just ridiculous. I've pasted sections of the bill here that directly address that concern. I've described decades of case law in immigration cases describing what does, and does not, constitute reasonable suspicion of illegal immigration status. I've pasted the phrase from the Arizona law that specifically outlaws "racial profiling". But never mind the facts, YOU think it MIGHT inconvenience Americans, so let's just not enforce immigration laws?! You see the phantom of racism where it doesn't exist, so let's have open borders? Why have any laws at all, then, Sparrow? - ragin_cajun Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:58:17 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9793 Two observations: 1) I am reluctant to clamp down on Hispanic immigration, legal or otherwise, because after my Acadian ancestors were kicked out of Nova Scotia by the British, who welcomed them to south Louisiana and gave them land, seeds, tools, and livestock? The Spanish! (Louisiana was part of the Spanish Empire from 1762 to 1800, and the first Acadians arrived in south Louisiana in 1764-65.) 2) This legislation smacks to me of racism if only because those who promote seem to assume that everyone who is Hispanic in the U.S. is an illegal alien, when in fact there have been Hispanics in North America since before the U.S. even existed. When one runs into Hispanic "Mexican-looking" people speaking Spanish, how does one know they did not come from the Rio Grande Valley of Texas, for example, and that their ancestors have lived there for centuries and that their family became American when Texas joined the union around 1850? How does one not know they are as American as you or me or anyone else? In short, I think the American public is too quick to assume that Spanish-speaking persons are illegal aliens, and, as a result of this new legislation, many American citizens will be mistaken for illegal aliens and be harrassed unnecessarily. - Sparrow Mon, 23 Aug 2010 12:12:20 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9788 Resident-- Actually, you ARE now 100% behind the law, because the way you understand it is incorrect. I will, once AGAIN, quote from the law which is on the Internet at the address I pasted into my earlier comment. http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf The law says "FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL". That literally means that the officer has already made a stop for another offense. The law also uses the term "reasonable suspicion" which means "a combination of things taken together" according to legal precedent, and race can't be one of them. Then, the Arizona law has these words "A law enforcement official or agency … may not solely consider race, color or national origin" It's all in the law, and it's not hard to read, either. Take a LOOK at it, man. Also, I've read that because hyper-sensitive race-obsessed activists have claimed ignorance of "LAWFUL CONTACT", the law was changed to read "lawful stop, detention or arrest". http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2010/04/29/20100429arizona-immigration-law-changes29-ON.html#ixzz0maqNkHPz So every objection that you and Mrs. Tutwiler raise to the Arizona law are patently untrue. - ragin_cajun Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:19:28 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9787 Well, ragin, then I'm 50% behind the Arizona law. We will see how well that part of the law goes when industry pulls its levers of power. The requirement to show auto insurance when stopped for speeding is a poor analogy. Showing insurance papers happens as a result of another incident. As I understand it, the Arizona law gives local authorities the power to demand papers regardless of a person's actions. This amounts to an unprovoked search on citizens and non-citizens, and would undoubtedly be based on racial profiling in many cases. Bad and bad. - Resident Mon, 23 Aug 2010 10:14:39 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9785 Resident-- Would you call requiring a driver to provide proof of auto insurance when pulled over for speeding "another attack on everyone's civil liberties"? How is the Arizona law any different? Because of the skin color of the immigrants? If it's wrong to require aliens to show their papers, then why do we even issue them? If we can't ask to see them, why print them up? "The problem lies with businesses who hire illegal immigrants" If that's what you think, then you must be 100% behind the Arizona law, because if you actually READ it, you'll see that half of the law lays out how the State of Arizona will punish employers for illegally hiring aliens not authorized to work in America. "suspend all licenses" "employer to be subject to a five year probationary" "role of the directors, officers or principals of the employer" "employer to terminate the employment of all unauthorized" "permanently revoke all licenses" for a second violation - ragin_cajun Mon, 23 Aug 2010 09:18:28 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9782 Another politician trying to cash in on bigotry and ignorance? There is certainly a problem with illegal immigrants and their job snatching. But this profiling-paper-check method is another attack on everyone's civil liberties and is the wrong way to go about a solution. The problem lies with businesses who hire illegal immigrants; Mr. Hebert either does not know this or ignores it. If we were to deport every illegal immigrant, our economy would take a serious blow as far too many business rely on illegal immigrant labor. Business owners and politicians of both parties know this, but instead sit and watch as people like Mr. Hebert shoot at the wrong target and whip up some more hatred for political gain. Only by cracking down on those who hire illegals will we begin a solution. Attacking the people who fill a demand is misguided, but hatin' on brown people is the easy way, eh Mr. Hebert? - Resident Mon, 23 Aug 2010 07:35:58 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9779 Illegal is illegal...I'm sorry if it inconveniences you to show your proper paperwork in this country. If you are not a citizen of the United States of America, then you should not only be silent, you should not reap ANY benefits of this country. As the author is well-travelled, she should know that your credentials should be carried on you at all times. I'm pretty sure they check you in other countries. Hell, I'm required to carry ID in MY country; so, why shouldn't an illegal person be required to ID themselves as well? - Bret Mon, 23 Aug 2010 07:21:47 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9754 BSNUTS, ittakes two idiots to have an argument, ignore cajun-jimbo, he's an oxy-idiot ! - NORTHSIDIAN SHOTGUN Fri, 20 Aug 2010 20:36:41 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9753 Bsnuts-- You are arrogant and uninformed. Before you, and the author of this article, start spouting off and insulting reasonable people, why don't YOU read the LAW. It states that "FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL", an attempt will be made to determine immigration status and federal law will be enforced. That means that the officer has ALREADY DETAINED a suspect for breaking some OTHER law. The Arizona law also authorizes law enforcement to stop a person operating a motor vehicle if that person is in "violation of a civil traffic law". None of that is "creating a Nazi state". That is clearly stating what law enforcement may do. http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf Ms. Tutwiler-- congratulations on your ethnic diversity and world travels. Maybe if you'd travelled to Nova Scotia, you'd have learned that the expulsion of the Acadians was NOT genocide. They were forcibly expelled if they refused to swear loyalty to England. There were some skirmishes. There were prison ships. There was no genocide. The Independent needs to hire an adult professional to proofread these articles before they're posted to the web. - ragin_cajun Fri, 20 Aug 2010 20:34:50 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9752 cajun-jimbo everything you had to be proud of you blew, when you opened that sewer of a brain of yours ! - NORTHSIDIAN SHOTGUN Fri, 20 Aug 2010 20:34:20 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9751 The nazi state, has nothing on greedy American Capitalist such as theMellon's / Rockerfelly's to name a couple these date back almost as far back as the catholic for greed and crimes against the people and these are the fiends you need to worry about along with the united states warring generals....... - NORTHSIDIAN SHOTGUN Fri, 20 Aug 2010 20:31:49 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9747 Cajun Jimbo do you want be pulled over and asked for your papers. The point is we do not want to live in a Nazi state and that is what Hebert wants to create by adopting the Arizona laws. Read A book - Bsnuts Fri, 20 Aug 2010 17:03:50 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9736 the author of this opinion piece fails to make a valid point with her last paragraph. it's mainly meant to convey her displeaure with the law and senator hebert's position. it doesn't matter if senator hebert's ancestor was an immigrant or not. what would make her statment more relevant is if he broke the law when he came to this country....that's the whole point....that's why they're called ILLEGAL immigrants.... - cajun-jimbo Fri, 20 Aug 2010 12:52:57 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/6786-hebert-takes-aim-at-immigration#comment-9728 TUT TUT, MY LADY, I HAVE SEEN YOUR PIC AND I HAVE ALWAYS SUSPECTED, A HINT OF CHEROKEE, IN THAT BEAUTIFULL, GENTLY SCULPTED FACIAL PERIPHERAL, AS NATIVE AMERICAN , ANGULAR, HIGH CHEEK BONE, A FACE, REMINISENT OF THE BEAUTIFUL CATHERINE DENEUVE. GOSH, YA AIN'T JUST BEAUTIFUL, YOU ARE ALSO SO WISE ! EL NUMERO UNO FAN, PRESIDENT OF THE MARIQUITA "TUT TUT" FAN CLUB......AKA 21ST. GENERATION ILLEGAL, DATING BACK TO 1492, FIRST lIEUTENANT OFFICER CIANO DE LEAL, DESCENDANT !!!!! - NORTHSIDIAN SHOTGUN Fri, 20 Aug 2010 11:47:10 +0100