Comments for CPC gets an earful from downtown business owners at http://www.theind.com , comment 1 to 17 out of 17 comments http://www.theind.com Sun, 26 May 2013 04:23:01 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/7060-cpc-gets-an-earful-from-downtown-business-owners#comment-11155 Build it and they will come!!!!! What did you expect....Can you imagine what the horse farm will look like on FRri. Sat. Sun mornings. Prehaps we should let the private sector develop this one.. And about the farm...prehaps the money used to buy the farm could be used to support police, firemen, schools, streets for the good of this wonderful community. Thanks - Grannie Thu, 07 Oct 2010 15:48:33 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/7060-cpc-gets-an-earful-from-downtown-business-owners#comment-11144 :) OK, resident. I will grant you that "prejudicial" is my characterization. But, "law against a particular group of LICENSED, LEGAL BUSINESS owners downtown while exempting the EXACT SAME behavior when it is sanctioned by government"--That's pure fact. That is a completely accurate statement that no reasonable person could dispute. There is not a single value judgement in that statement. It is what it is. " I find your description simplistic and comical" Really? Do you? I said "Socialism and leftism are characterized by a belief in using government to achieve social change." What could you possible say about leftist thought that sums it up better than that? Is that not a completely correct statement? If I'm in error, then educate me. "inability or unwillingness to separate issues on the federal, state, and local levels" Here's the problem. you like things like freedom, liberty, limited government, and less government spending at the federal level because that's way over there where it doesn't inconvenience you. But when those ideals conflict with your own lifestyle at the local level, when you have to actually live those ideals in your own life, when they prevent government from providing the services, and "quality of life" you want, then you toss those beliefs at the door of the Arts Center and tell people like me that you're actually noble because it's really for the good of "the community". "Consistency is the foundation of virtue". - ragin_cajun Thu, 07 Oct 2010 11:24:46 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/7060-cpc-gets-an-earful-from-downtown-business-owners#comment-11138 "explain to me how it is that it's ok to pass a prejudicial law against a particular group of LICENSED, LEGAL BUSINESS owners downtown while exempting the EXACT SAME behavior when it is sanctioned by government." This is YOUR characterization of the issue. I don't have to explain why your characterization of the issue is OK. I know by now that trying to address flaws in your characterizations is fruitless. This is not to say that I don't agree with some of your points. Socialism, liberalism, conservatism and fascism certainly do describe philosophies. But that does not mean the people flinging the words about really know what they mean. I find your description simplistic and comical, as well as your inability or unwillingness to separate issues on the federal, state, and local levels. Since you are flinging labels at me, I will tell you that I am more conservative and libertarian (in the true sense of the words) than many people who call themselves conservative. - Resident Thu, 07 Oct 2010 10:05:32 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/7060-cpc-gets-an-earful-from-downtown-business-owners#comment-11135 resident -- arts walk is every weekend. Downtown Alive is every weekend for 4 months of the year. concerts in the park are much more often than once a year. those all contribute greatly to the problem, if you believe the reports from those who comment on this website. if your "NO-CUPS" ordinance is an attempt to save tax dollars, then let's save the tax dollars caused by littering at all those weekly events, as well as mardi gras and festivals. Why should they be exempt? You've asked me to post my thoughts. I have. You've asked me to weigh the good and the bad. I have. You've asked for good reasons NOT to have a go-cup ban. I've given two and also explained the "it'd be less fun" in terms of market competition between tourist destinations for drinkers. so now, show me the same courtesy. explain to me how it is that it's ok to pass a prejudicial law against a particular group of LICENSED, LEGAL BUSINESS owners downtown while exempting the EXACT SAME behavior when it is sanctioned by government. Now that I've learned that the City charges rent and fees for entertainers to play in a public park, that puts them running a private business. This ordinance could be construed as government using the ordinance to stifle its business competitors. I'm no lawyer, but I think the bar owners have a case if they choose to squash this in court. on a final note, ""socialism" and "leftism"" are not cliches. They are words that educated people use to describe philosophies and belief systems that motivate people's behavior. Socialism and leftism are characterized by a belief in using government to achieve social change. In other words, leftists run to the government and make a law when they see something they don't like going on. That's exactly what's happening here, as several others have pointed out. If you don't want to be called a Socialist or a Leftist, then quit talking/thinking/writing like one. I wouldn't mind it a bit if you called me a Capitalist, a Libertarian, an Objectivist, or a Conservative. If you said I were merely regurgitating the anti-federalist, anti-government rhetoric of a radical like Patrick Henry, I'd accept that. Why do statists resent accurate descriptions of their policies? - ragin_cajun Thu, 07 Oct 2010 09:29:19 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/7060-cpc-gets-an-earful-from-downtown-business-owners#comment-11126 "There is already a law against littering that the police aren't enforcing. Enforce that law, and this all goes away." No. Addressing the problem at the point-source if more effective, more so than trying to have cops write a ticket for every person that throws a cup on the ground. It's analogous to pollution; treat it at the point-source rather than trying to clean the whole water body. Your attempt to use the Festival and Mardi Gras needs a rebuttal. First of all, these events happen once a year; the problem at hand is every weekend. Secondly, most of the cups at the Festival are not go cups; they are sold directly on the street. If we're talking go cups from bars, that's a valid point. Thirdly, there is a concerted effort to prevent and clean up litter during the Festival (and Mardi Gras to a lesser degree), including many volunteers. Just because New Orleans has go cups does not mean that Lafayette should. New Orleans is, to put it mildly, the exception to many things. How many other places allow people to take drinks into the street? Virtually none, I'd wager. I've been to downtown Mobile and that was a great place to go out; no go cups there. On a final note, throwing around cliches like "socialism" and "leftism" is rather pathetic here. This isn't the Sean Hannity show. - Resident Thu, 07 Oct 2010 07:17:00 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/7060-cpc-gets-an-earful-from-downtown-business-owners#comment-11118 "The person renting the park pays a fee for cleanup which is done by the city either before 10pm or the next morning." LOL! This just keeps getting better and better. They lay a tax to pay for building it, and to maintain it, and then they rent it out, too? And charge a fee for trash pickup, too. THE CITY'S RUNNING A NIGHTCLUB DOWNTON! And Bertrand's agitants are really just upset that the City's doing a crappy job of it :) What Durel and the Council need to do is ask someone who actually knows how to run a niteclub to show them how to do it. Instead of harassing the owners of Karma, and Marley's, et. al, maybe they should ask them for guidance? Bourbon Street doesn't have a ban on go-cups. Why do we need one? Ask New Orleans for advice! - ragin_cajun Wed, 06 Oct 2010 19:29:22 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/7060-cpc-gets-an-earful-from-downtown-business-owners#comment-11102 written by The Holy Goofus Reminds me of the effort to ban cock fighting in Louisiana a few years ago...The same will soon happen with go-cups. ---------------------- Rrrright, banned cock fighting. At least not in public. - PInball Wizard Wed, 06 Oct 2010 15:16:41 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/7060-cpc-gets-an-earful-from-downtown-business-owners#comment-11078 Reminds me of the effort to ban cock fighting in Louisiana a few years ago. After a lot of moaning and gnashing of the teeth, the forces of common sense ultimately prevailed. The same will soon happen with go-cups. - The Holy Goofus Wed, 06 Oct 2010 13:02:52 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/7060-cpc-gets-an-earful-from-downtown-business-owners#comment-11075 "I have a question. Who picks up all this trash now? if there's a big weekend event downtown in the park, like Cowboy Mouth plays for free, and it ends late at night with a thousand cups on the ground, who picks all that up today?" The person renting the park pays a fee for cleanup which is done by the city either before 10pm or the next morning. - no one of significance Wed, 06 Oct 2010 12:41:13 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/7060-cpc-gets-an-earful-from-downtown-business-owners#comment-11067 OK. I agree with you that this is a pretty minor issue. The philosophies behind the proposed solutions are all that is really interesting in all this. The attitudes and beliefs of the people involved. If we restrict the whole issue to cups being left on the ground, just for the sake of the discussion between you and I, then I see no reason to make a new ordinance. There is already a law against littering that the police aren't enforcing. Enforce that law, and this all goes away. Also, when I weigh the pros and cons of "GO-CUPS" versus "NO-CUPS", (leftists love rhymes and slogans :)), your pros are not true. Lemme explain-- "I'm talking litter" -- the law has a looop hole for go cups at sanctioned events. We've seen posts here telling us after sanctioned events there is litter, too. Go cup ban would not stop that. There'd still be litter after Festivals and arts walks, right? so this law would not solve the problem--if the problem is trash in the streets, that is. "police" -- so they could cut back on police patrols downtown if it weren't for all those pesky go cups laying on the ground? That can't be right. Is that what you're saying? Police aren't down there trying to stop littering, and drunks aren't flocking down there because it's a cool place to throw cups on the ground. "picking up the slack for lack of future investment" -- trash on the ground is why investment in downtown is not what was expected? That's not right, either. Is that what you're actually saying? Hmmm....I would have bought a condo where all those " kiddies and hilarious man-children" hang around drunk til 3AM, but I decided not to when I saw that half of them had a GO-CUP in their hand. That's a show-stopper in any real estate transaction :) So the pro's aren't really there. What would be some cons? detracts from the attraction of a drinking destination -- I really thought that Downtown Lafayette at some point decided it was going to be like Bourbon Street--a drinking destination for tourists. If it is, then it has to be competitive with Bourbon Street, and that means friendly and convenient for drinkers. Open containers are a draw for drunks. http://wikitravel.org/en/New_Orleans Must be SOMETHING to this if the council saw fit to allow open containers for some events, but not others. minor decrease in liquor sales -- although probably minor, it's important to the business owner. Most people would not buy that one last beer if they knew they were about to leave and throw it away. It might be so significant as to depress sales tax, and the police's bar levy, too. It COULD be that the drop in sales tax from loss of sales of "one for the ditch" would be more than the cost of a street cleaning crew! :) possible legal challenge -- because it's a drastic and sudden change in government policy toward some business owners, it's only in some areas of town and not all of the city, and because it exempts some events in the downtown area as well, the law would be prejudicial and could very well be litigated. That's expensive. But my real problem with the go cup ban is that go cups are just not the real issue. The real issue is government turned downtown into Bourbon Street, and some people don't like that. That is totally separate from another issue -- spike in crime from vagrants in the area. Then there's the third issue--taxpayer funded downtown property development that will be a total bust if the bars leave because no one else wants to be down there. If a go cup ban addressed any one of those three real issues, I'd see it differently. If the go cup ban were applied evenly and fairly across the city, I might support it. If the go cup ban didn't have an exemption for the arts walk, the festival, mardi gras, you know, all the pet projects of the city fathers, I might support it. So there it is--my "actual thoughts on the (incredibly inane and hilariously divisive) matter at hand". I hope you're in "b0n3r-mode". Lemme know if you want me to explain my thoughts on how Socialism/Fascism/Leftism/Progressivism/Liberalism are all varying degrees of the same basic 2-3 philosophies/beliefs. - ragin_cajun Wed, 06 Oct 2010 12:02:21 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/7060-cpc-gets-an-earful-from-downtown-business-owners#comment-11059 @Ragin_Cajun: Instead of making us all yawn with a hackneyed "LiBeRalS aRe sOcIaLiStS!!!" post, I'd love to hear your actual thoughts on the (incredibly inane and hilariously divisive) matter at hand. Keep in mind "facts" and "logic" are something we libs also launch into b0n3r-mode for. Sorry I ended that last sentence with a preposition. It was an unusual sentence. But to respond to whatever your post was, I don't get off on letting the government control what people do. But I will admit I looooove when people who sing the praises of "personal responsibility" day and night bitch about a law that literally asks the bare minimum of personal responsibility be mandated. It's a cup for God's sakes. A cup that has caused tangible problems. The kiddies and hilarious man-children who actually enjoy partying downtown have proven they have no self-control en masse. Ergo, it's an issue. Does that make sense coming from me? Or would you prefer me to put on a Neil Cavuto mask and yell at you? But since we're generalizing, I'll assume you're a conservative who only is concerned with dollar signs. So do me a favor. Get a big, comical scale and a bunch of checkers. Weigh the bad and the good of NO-CUPS and GO-CUPS and tell me that the former wouldn't save us more money as taxpayers. I'm talking litter, police, no picking up the slack for lack of future investment. I have yet to hear a logical reason as to why we should keep these cups around that isn't, "Because it'd be less fun." Grow up. - LookSomeThings Wed, 06 Oct 2010 10:05:27 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/7060-cpc-gets-an-earful-from-downtown-business-owners#comment-11056 Geaux Cup and Jason -- I have a question. Who picks up all this trash now? if there's a big weekend event downtown in the park, like Cowboy Mouth plays for free, and it ends late at night with a thousand cups on the ground, who picks all that up today? does the city do it? do the cops have to do it? do concerned business owners do it? do the people who sold the beer have to do it? If it's some private company, who pays them? - ragin_cajun Wed, 06 Oct 2010 09:47:40 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/7060-cpc-gets-an-earful-from-downtown-business-owners#comment-11054 "written by Preaux Geaux Cup , October 05, 2010 Wuestemann, Thomas Guilbeau and Hector LaSala? Looks like the city's known far leftists are out in full support of banning the go cups" Compliments on your deep and thoughtful contribution to the discussion of how a city controls itself. Welldone and thanks. . . you must be a teabagger (I see that you like to communicate by name calling). :) - holeinthedonut8 Wed, 06 Oct 2010 09:36:44 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/7060-cpc-gets-an-earful-from-downtown-business-owners#comment-11050 Any time the government considers a law to control what individuals do, leftists will be in full support. The only exceptions are sex and drugs. Leftists, liberals, socialists, communists, fascists -- all share the belief that the individual's rights are secondary to the good of some collective group -- society as a whole, the children, ethnic groups, gender groups, minorities, the poor. They hate individualism. - ragin_cajun Wed, 06 Oct 2010 07:31:10 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/7060-cpc-gets-an-earful-from-downtown-business-owners#comment-11046 While you're naming leftists, you left out Don Bertrand. - Compassionate One Wed, 06 Oct 2010 06:57:58 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/7060-cpc-gets-an-earful-from-downtown-business-owners#comment-11041 Geaux Cup, one of the issues here is whether or not the citizens of this town, particularly those in my age demographic and below (and sadly some quite a bit older than me) are going to learn what most of us learned in elementary school, the need to not sully the place where we live. It's unacceptable that every event that happens in this town is accompanied by a mountain of one-time use throwaway plastic litter. Of course, one could ask the city to supply recycling bins downtown and make them widely available like other smart cities would. They don't have to be sophisticated either. I've been to Birmingham, Alabama and Athens, GA recently, and one cannot go without see cigarette receptacles installed in the urban core, mounted directly into the sidewalks. There is just no excuse in 2010 for this trashing of our community to continue. Being slovenly pigs does not go hand in hand with our culture. I believe our ancestors did not know such a thing as "waste." Pretty much everything was reused, or composted. What the heck this has to do with liberal values, I don't know. I think being clean and efficient is a community value, not a political value. - Jason D. Faulk Tue, 05 Oct 2010 23:25:18 +0100 http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/7060-cpc-gets-an-earful-from-downtown-business-owners#comment-11040 Wuestemann, Thomas Guilbeau and Hector LaSala? Looks like the city's known far leftists are out in full support of banning the go cups. - Preaux Geaux Cup Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:52:05 +0100