Comments for RE: Making Hay at http://www.theind.com , comment 1 to 33 out of 20 comments http://www.theind.com Tue, 21 May 2013 12:46:03 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16521 Congrats maceaneas you connected, apparently. - NORTHSIDIAN SHOTGUN Mon, 11 Apr 2011 23:06:50 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16512 i'm not sure what you mean...but, okay....I'll pay even CLOSER attention to facts in the future. I think I've always been very attentive to facts in my writing here, and I've often provided links to information to support my position here. I'm surprised to hear i'm the problem in that department on these boards, I have to say. But hey, you asked for it, you got it... :) - ragin_cajun Mon, 11 Apr 2011 20:39:38 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16508 The rich get richer!! The poor get poorer!! And, the REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED!! - The Original Northsidian Mon, 11 Apr 2011 19:41:06 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16507 ragin_cajun, you'll notice i removed your comment because your information is incorrect. Please stick to the facts when naming specific companies or individuals. And generalize your comments when expressing your opinion. - Leslie Turk Mon, 11 Apr 2011 18:37:41 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16474 Those Businesses which have negotiated tax exemptions and tax reductions on their businesses are " LIFE-TIME PAID UP MEMBERS OF JOEY'S POLITICAL CAREER. Birds of a feather "duck together. - NORTHSIDIAN SHOTGUN Sun, 10 Apr 2011 12:28:42 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16445 TPA: I must admit I do not possess mathematical training beyond a business acumen. So when you suggest I am only looking the film tax credit program from a business perspective, you are correct. However, if I understand your question, the damage to our society is that we are paying business (film companies) to employ citizens at a greater cost then the benefits received. Run this policy out to its logical conclusion. If the state loses money $100,000,000 million on the $500,000,000 spent by them, how much would we lose if they spent $1 billion? The mathematical formula would show you we would lose over to $200,000,000. The more they spend, the more we lose. So the harm is we would have over $200,000,000 million net loss in the receipts to the treasury, which means we have to cut funding to something. Like education? I am all for what makes sense. I have no ax to grind with the film industry. As a matter of fact, I take advantage of the film tax credits to fairly substantial degree. So like the property tax exemption for agricultural lands, I thank you for my subsidy. I just telling you, from 1st hand experience, its bad public policy. In the end it will bankrupt the state. Well actually, it already has. - Tim supple Fri, 08 Apr 2011 21:58:00 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16444 Tim, I must rdraw back my observations above after reading your sensible, sober observations on land property tax abuses here regionally. Your high moral nature impresses me. MY friend Maecenas was too stupid to understand the depth of your business insights. I will correct his faulty judgment. - Titus Pomponius Atticus Fri, 08 Apr 2011 21:17:49 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16440 If I may jump in here for Maecenas, Tim & Soop. I actually do possess a mathematical training. Can you quantify what cash these film industries actually do spend in Louisiana to produce their films? Tim what you have told Maecenas, my friend, and Soop is merely business. There is no obligation for business to pay taxes, unless they are forced to pay taxes! Our legislators are very generous with those donors who fund their political careers. Given this tax loop-hole mentality (How else do we feed tax lawyers?) where is the damage to outer society? I would be curious in your lucid evidence-driven statements here, Tim. I will naturally check out your link to us. Thank you for your urbanity in regard to these matters. - Titus Pomponius Atticus Fri, 08 Apr 2011 17:53:58 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16425 soop: you would be correct "if" the film tax credits were to offset the income tax of the film company receiving them. But if you check you will see that the film companies do not distribute from our state and therefore neither owe or pay income taxes to La. What they do is they take their profits (film distribution and sales) in states or countries with little or no income tax. So what do they do with the $40,000,000 tax credit? Sell it to another business in La. that OWES the state income taxes. The market rate(yes there is an active market for that "commodity") is that you can buy it for 85% of its value. So Exxon refinery (I hear they are a big buyer)owes the state $40,000,000 in income tax, but pays the film companies $34,000,000 and uses that tax credit to offset the $40,000,000 they owe the state. And no the film company doesn't owe the state the money back. GCM: hope this answers your question about "They actually do NOT take cash out of the State Treasury". The answer is yes they do. For more detail go to : http://www.fbtfilm.com/buying_tax_credits.aspx be glad for you to come by and I can pull it all up on the internet. - Tim Supple Fri, 08 Apr 2011 12:59:20 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16408 Thanks Soop! But notice it took Tim's re-statement to clarify the situation; thus permitting your unimpeachable evidence to emerge. But let us all pay attention to the anal Hate Merchant, NORTHSIDIAN SHOTGUN. His claim to fame is that he learned how to shoot a gun and kill people! Our lucid observations are dismissed as "insidious." Furthermore, he attacks our sexual identity! Isn't he a creature made in hell! He must have been unloved by his mother in childhood. He is missing his hormones vasopressin & oxytocin! - Gaius Cilnius Maecenas Fri, 08 Apr 2011 10:30:25 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16401 Tim ... here is the flaw in your reasoning. You assume the state would have collected $160M in taxes IF the movies had still come to the state without the tax credit. Here is how the analysis should have gone: Pre Tax Credit - taxes to the state = $0 Post Tax Credit - taxes to the state = $40,000,000.00 Again, if you assume the movie industry was going to rush to Louisiana anyway, then yes ... the state lost money by giving a tax break. But I don't think anyone can rationally look at the facts and say that was going to happen. The tax incentives lured the industry here pure and simple. And the state is $40M richer (and a lot of people have jobs) because of it. Glad you "explained" it so we could all "see." All the best, Soop - Soop. Fri, 08 Apr 2011 06:42:29 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16394 What a show of backsides, do you couillions really think that you have anyones ear, I'd like to know how many of you were ever in a front line defending this nation, insuring that the political leaders could have the freedom to continue to break you like a double barrel. everyoneone wants the freedom to mouth their insidious little opinions but when nit comes to have earned that right, I'd say maybe two out of all the posters above ever even put on a cub scout uniform, hah what a bunch of MOFO'S, especially the hot air one now full of gas, "Beware Walter, GCM, is sidling up to you, he may duck - NORTHSIDIAN SHOTGUN Thu, 07 Apr 2011 19:51:03 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16393 Thanks Tim! This clarifies the monetary situation. Would I be correct in the following observation: They actually do NOT take cash out of the State Treasury, they merely do not paid their dues into the State Treasury [What they would be obligated to pay, if they did not have tax credits.] 35% Tax Credit seems very generous; we should have more of a mature film industry in Louisiana at that rate. I will have to check in with the brilliant young man running Joey's Lafayette Entertainment Initiative [LEI], John Petersen, to gather more of a feel for these matters. I have been out of the loop for five or more years! Thanks for your labors here! - Gaius Cilnius Maecenas Thu, 07 Apr 2011 19:39:30 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16392 CCM: hope this helps. The are not exact amounts they are the most current estimates for 2010 I can find. But close to 2009 $500,000,000 spend on making movies X 30% tax credit (avg. of 35% salaries and 25% other) 160,000,000 tax credit (amount of credit to income taxes) 500,000,000 spent on making movies X 8% sales tax collected by state $40,000,000 colleted 160,000,000 tax credit (money not paid in state income tax) -40,000,000 paid in sales taxes $110,000,000 difference Note: I use the higher of the sales tax 8% rather than income tax 3%, just to be conservative. hope it helps. but if you google film tax credits, you will see many reports. Both from conservative and liberal media. all say the same thing. I have only found 1 study commissioned by the La film companies that shows anything positive. - Tim supple Thu, 07 Apr 2011 18:40:01 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16381 I would have thought that South of I-10 above would have drawn attention to Walter's grammatical error: "...that would have underwritten at..." It should read: "...that would have been underwritten by..." The verbal structure is conditional [optative] present perfect passive. I use to agree with Walter that dancers were effete. That was until I took two courses in dancing at the university in my late 20's. There is nothing effete about dancers. It improved my athleticism (it was a football coach that told me about taking a course in dancing to improve my bodily strength and dexterity, why I took these courses); my poise and my self-confidence in public gatherings. It was a great experience! About the 'homoerotic'---Right on Walter! - Gaius Cilnius Maecenas Thu, 07 Apr 2011 13:32:31 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16377 Thank you Jermiah for asking the correct question. Although Walter says the topic of property taxes "had been flashing on his radar screen for some time", it is great that the topic is on the front burner. With government in a financial crisis it is time to close "loop holes" that allow property owners to skip out from carrying their fair load. Please stay involved in our community and issues that benefit all citizens. Grateful Reader - Grateful Thu, 07 Apr 2011 12:56:31 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16366 I thought he was dead serious. - ragin_cajun Thu, 07 Apr 2011 10:58:11 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16365 "That’s $96K that would have otherwise gone into city and parish coffers to fund the imperatives of government. Imagine all the effete, homoerotic, modern dance productions that would have underwritten at the Acadiana Center for the Arts." Hilarious Walter! - South of I-10 Thu, 07 Apr 2011 10:33:59 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16359 Tim, You made a valiant effort to explain your thesis of $100 Million loss to the State Treasury, but could you pare your explanation down so it is mathematically understandable. Elicit for our minds what your controling assumptions are, what numerical values you are plugging in, and how tax credits actually undermine or hurt our local/state economy. Thanks. PS: Its GCM. - Gaius Cilnius Maecenas Thu, 07 Apr 2011 09:12:08 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8080-making-hay#comment-16354 That's a great question Robert. I think you should attend their meetings and find out, then report back to us so we'll all know. Better yet, since it's almost election time, perhaps the pros at the Ind should do a little Q & A with the TEA Party and nail down just where they stand on all these things. I think MANY of us could use a healthy dose of facts about this group since they'll probably play a role in local and state elections this year, and their positions on issues are not clearly understood by the public at large, the commenters here, or even the reporters here. It'd be a real shame for the Ind to get scooped by Gannett on a local story like this. - ragin_cajun Thu, 07 Apr 2011 07:32:58 +0100