Comments for Gay and OK at http://www.theind.com , comment 1 to 53 out of 20 comments http://www.theind.com Sat, 18 May 2013 14:40:55 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21565 I believe most NGOs could fund themselves, esp if they're valid, legit, meaningful Os. I believe they should be fazed out. I believe the arts in Laf parish can surely find private donors. I also believe in live and let live & that's whats allowed Acadiana's gay population to stay here if they want to. More than 30 yrs ago, I began hearing about this mardi gras krewe called Appollo & the tickets were to die for. That's not to say there isn't an undercurrent of holier than thou, you're going to hell, community out here. But I love the LGBT population here in Louisiana. I believe the community has been more accepting due to the prejudice that Cajuns suffered. I hope all our children can stay here if they choose and not have to worry about their safety or acceptance. Its not as if LGBT is trying to convert or recruit. It is what it is and I celebrate it in its glory! I'll tell you, there are a whole lot worse things to be than gay, and in jail or a grave is worse.... - Hope Wed, 31 Aug 2011 11:23:35 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21519 What it boils down to with arts funding is a return on investment. When you look at the ROI from state arts funding for Lafayette parish in 2009, its over $10. See here: http://acadianacenterforthearts.org/Images/Interior/lpaa/louisiana arts data.doc When people go out to see a show or to visit a gallery or get a dose of great music and food at a festival, they don't just give money to that NGO. They go out to dinner before the show and go out for a drink after, generating business for and sales tax dollars from restaurants and bars. There are some 22,000 full-time, part-time and seasonal jobs in the arts in this state a year. You think the money made there is just cash under the table? There are some 22,000 full-time, part-time and seaonal jobs in the arts in this state each year - and all 22,000 of those people pay taxes. Artists and arts administrators contribute to the system just like the rest of society. Trust me, these people aren't a bunch of leeches. And the state and even local governments don't just blindly throw money at NGO's. There is a difficult application process enabling the state/local government to make wise INVESTMENT decisions about what will work. The arts is one thing - but when it comes to the social service NGO's who provide meals for the homeless or counseling for abuse victims, who can honestly say that that gov't funding for these services is not a necessity and that someone is going to fund them if government doesn't? As it is, with the pittance that most of these NGO's get from the government in relation to the mission and budget they're up against, people complain about their taxes at work there. Who would willingly fund it if the government didn't? Would you? All that being said, this article wasn't your best, Walter. However, an op-ed is an op-ed. What these folks tend to forget is the OP part of it. - eiswright Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:25:15 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21518 To [R]agin_cajun's Charming Wife: Madame: I just did my Google searches on Cave Art in France & Spain. I did not realize how many caves there were that left remains of cave art. The oldest are 32,000 during the Aurignacian period. However, in Australia there was discovered cave art that is 40,000 years old. I had asserted 40,000 years of age. I missed it by 8,000 years---not too bad of a blunder. These observations do not discount your time frame, which is when the great majority of them were made. After several days of reflections, I now recall where I had learned that these cave arts bred psychological confidence. It was an advertisement in the CIO Magazine [Chief Information Officer] about seven to five years ago. Once again, thank you for your correction of my chronology to this readership. - Gaius Cilnius Maecenas Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:13:50 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21467 To ragin_cajun and his charming wife: Glad I was a source of humor and pleasure for you two. Tell your wife thanks for up-dating my chronology on ancient cave paintings in France and Spain. It has been a very long time since I have read learned men and women on these cave paintings. Hopefully, Wikipedia will come to my rescue to refresh this content in my mind! However, your wife's assertions on ancient Rome require deeper analysis. Her comments reflect Roman Imperial propaganda! Your wife is certainly correct about the excesses of the Julio-Claudian Dynasty! Since the foundational roots of high French culture is Graeco-Roman culture, you two might want to investigate Greek paideia ["education"]: it was based on physical training, musical & dance training, and literary culture. The Greeks introduced a pattern of behavior that lasted 800 years [ca. 600 BCE to 200 CE]. The artistic system had governmental and private support. This is how it worked in a nut-shell: Each city had their sanctuary and its god or goddess' festivals. At these respective religious festivals, there were fierce athletic & artistic competition for prizes. Winning these prizes brought kudos [fame, glory, renown] to the individual victor, his family and his city. Later, in the 4th century, next to these sanctuaries, schools were opened to attract scholars and students from the known world. In ancient Athens, there were three schools, the Academy (Plato), the Lyceum (Aristole), and the Cynosarges (Stoics). These schools developed at these locations because the local sanctuary had a gymnasium and/or palaestra. Here youths did their physical training and contests naked. It was ultimately this Cretan-Spartan institution that spread through out all of Greece. Plato deals with the ridicule heaped on Greece by the "barbarians" for their devotion to naked athletes. It was out of this culture that beauty, morality and temperance were instilled in the Western tradition! Your nonsensical ad hominems, I will ignore. We use words to communicate with each other. These words have a history in time and place. To cite ancient texts merely confirms accuracy of observation. It is a courtesy to this readership to enrich their humanity! Notice I attempt to use a word, elucidate its correct meaning, and translate it into modern English. This is how one shows respect to the readership here. This is how we learn from one another in a non-trivial fashion, worthy of our high French culture in Lafayette, Louisiana. P.S. Study carefully the lives of Louis XIV, his brother Philippe I, duc d'Orleans, and (Louis' nephew) Philippe II, duc de Chartres & duc d'Orleans. When King Louis died, the nephew became 'le Regent' for eight years, due to the minority of Louis XV. These were all extraordinary men, brilliant military commanders and patrons of the arts. Read carefully the splendid French scholarship of Professor Anthony Levi. - Gaius Cilnius Maecenas Mon, 29 Aug 2011 14:04:41 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21453 by ragin_cajun "Also, she would like me to add that as a holder of an advanced degree, and as the daughter of a PhD and retired UL faculty member" ---------- I have a Nobel Prize. So there. Walter has a Go-to-Hell Prize because he controls the blog. - Cracklin Patin Mon, 29 Aug 2011 09:44:17 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21442 Great posts Ragin, "et ux"! See? Some of us "misers, curmudgeons & malcontents poisoning our civil community discourse" know Latin also!!!It's not really important nor useful but you seem to be impressed with yourself/it! Really, Gay!! Multisyllabic verbage does not the Intellectual make!! (modern translation: A BSer can't BS a BSer!) - realitycheck Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:30:43 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21436 GCM -- I just HAVE to add some contributions from my wife to this discussion. She is laughing at you, Gaius. My wife immediately siezes on the most obvious,infamous and extreme example of the folly of public funding of arts and athletics in all of human history -- ANCIENT ROME. My wife points out that in Ancient Rome, lavish public spending by the rulers on athletic entertainment, games, arts, architectural projects, and statuary was legendary. This bankrupted the state, and was a key motivator of the wars of conquest all over the known world, using the plunder to once again fund more games, temples, artwork, and distraction. This cycle of plunder and subsidy ultimately bankrupted Rome, opened the way for Barbarian conquest, and plunged Europe into centuries of social and economic turmoil. My wife correctly points out that the ultimate lesson from history is that plundering one group to serve another cannot last. So, I ask you, Gaius....is funding arts so important to you that, should the taxpayer fail, you would support a foreign war to raise these funds? Or would you merely tax Lafayette's taxpayers as severely as the Roman Senate taxed Romans? Also, my wife dropped her beer she laughed so hard at your assertion that cave paintings 40,000 years ago were to "breed confidence for the hunt". My wife says that cave paintings are really 20,000 to 30,000 years old, not 40,000. She says that no one really KNOWS why they made cave paintings, but that they are not in the most accessibe areas of the caves, and they are not in continuously inhabited caves, either. So those two known facts make your assertion most unlikely. She says a more likely reason for the cave paintings is that they were used to tell others that the hunting grounds were good, or that they were not meant to be seen by most of the group at all. Also, she would like me to add that as a holder of an advanced degree, and as the daughter of a PhD and retired UL faculty member, she is troubled that someone would make erroneous and unsupportable statements about the motivations of cave painters so long ago and try to suggest that their level of education, or their vocation with letters and languages, lends credence to their position. My wife points out that her father's role at UL was two-fold: academic AND teacher. She says her father would never have lorded his academic status over another for fear that it would compromise his effectiveness as an educator. If you know more than we do about history because of your vocation with ancient languages, then perhaps you'd be more useful to the community as an educator than an expert. No student learns anything from an expert telling him he's ignorant and uneducated--as you have on many occassions. - ragin_cajun Sun, 28 Aug 2011 11:21:05 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21435 GCM -- You're not making much sense here, buddy. You say the value to a community is ecomonic. But your quote from Homer is an expression of personal virtue. It does not support the position you state, because it does not show an economic benefit to public funding of the arts. Now, if Homer laid out specific economic benefits to public investment in the Arts or Athletics, maybe this would make some sense. But an expression of Homer's idea of virtuous conduct is not an example of economic benefit, is it? Then you say with hard work, you achieve success. That's true. And a community that has hard working and diligent members aids survival. That's true, too. But you fail to show exactly how public funding for arts programs produces a diligent citizenry. I would say that public funding of arts programs encourages sloth and laziness. It encourages artists to seek unearned tax dollars for their projects instead of working to earn the money they need to produce art. Also, public funding insulates artists from the judgment of their audience. An artist can produce nonsense, or hyper-personal and self indulgent drivel, and continue to do so as long as he/she stays in good graces with the bureaucrat or "arts council" that disburses the public's wealth. Why bother refining and improving an artistic product when it doesn't really matter what the public at large thinks of the product? Now that is two examples of how public arts funding encourages lazy, sloppy art. I think most would agree that there are many examples of public funding encouraging sloth and laziness, as opposed to increasing diligence and virute as you suggest. In fact, I'm stunned to hear that someone would actually try to support the idea that public funding makes anyone more diligent. It's absurd. - ragin_cajun Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:26:49 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21417 To the Group: What is the value to a community for its financial support of the Athletic System and the Artistic System? It is economic! Since these dual programs were institutionalized by the ancient Greeks, and have been the mainstay of all wealthy urban centers in the Western Tradition since, one needs to know why these things were done by the ancient Greeks. The answer is to be located in Homer's epic poem, The Iliad [6: 208 & 11: 783] codified around 750 BCE: aien aristeuein, kai hypeirochon emmenai allon [Ancient Ionic Greek, "Always to do one's best and to surpass others."]! With hard work you achieve success in life. This aided human individual and communal survival! This is why a healthy athletic system and artistic system is a dire necessity for a community, despite the above comments from the usual collection of misers, curmudgeons & malcontents poisoning our civil community discourse! Once again, I want to thank Walter for his charming letter to us [even though, the "sassy" wife comment left me some what perplexed, even though it was wittily expressed]. - Gaius Cilnius Maecenas Sat, 27 Aug 2011 13:34:16 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21415 To ragin_cajun: Your knowledge of pre-history is faulty! It was not the "nomadic" hunter-gatherers that did Cave Art; it was temporary sedentary "hunter-gathers' communities at rich food resources that did! Also, you did not focus on the key point: psychological confidence! [Which aided skill building in weapon usage]. - Gaius Cilnius Maecenas Sat, 27 Aug 2011 13:10:53 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21413 Gayest: Sounds like spirituality to me. Art and athletics have always and will always exist; with or without government funding. You can keep living in your world, and I will stay here on Earth. - realitycheck Sat, 27 Aug 2011 12:07:47 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21410 WGAF! Live & Let Live!! - the original northsidian Sat, 27 Aug 2011 08:17:08 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21409 Sounds like government to you? Cave art in a nomadic hunter-gather group before humans had even thought to live in one place and grow food sounds like government to you. That's a profound misunderstanding of human history. Just complete nonsense. - ragin_cajun Sat, 27 Aug 2011 07:43:09 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21399 To reality check: Were you around 40,000 years ago to observe artistic productions in caves? What was its purpose? To breed confidence for the hunt which effected group survival! Gee, that sounds like government to me. Are you stupid enough to think that athletics and artistic productions do not effect human survival? What planet are you living on? - Gaius Cilnius Maecenas Fri, 26 Aug 2011 22:11:56 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21396 The numbers were "adjusted". The Williams Institute advances sexual orientation law and public policy through rigorous, independent research and scholarship, and disseminates it to judges, legislators, policymakers, media and the public. A national think tank at UCLA Law, the Williams Institute produces high quality research with real-world relevance. Experts at the Williams Institute have authored dozens of public policy studies and law review articles, filed amicus briefs in key court cases, provided expert testimony at legislative hearings, been widely cited in the national media, and trained thousands of lawyers, judges and members of the public. By providing new ideas and reliable information, the Williams Institute makes a difference. The Williams Institute was made possible through the vision and generosity of businessperson, academic, and philanthropist Charles R. Williams. Mr. Williams is the President of Williams & Associates and received his B.A. and M.B.A. from UCLA. Until 1985, Mr. Williams worked as a senior executive for Sperry Corporation, where he held several positions, including Vice President for Strategic and Business Planning and Vice President and General Manager for Worldwide Operations. Most recently, he has taught business courses in policy and strategy and consults in this area. Mr. Williams is also a board member of the UCLA Foundation. Mr. Williams' inaugural donation of $2.5 million to create the Williams Institute was the largest donation ever given to any academic institution in support of a gay and lesbian academic program in any discipline. As the institute has grown, Mr. Williams has given over $12 million to support the organization's programs. Because of his generosity and support, the Institute has impacted policy throughout the country on important LGBT issues. - realitycheck Fri, 26 Aug 2011 16:37:35 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21393 8 in a 1,000 instead of 7? yawn! City statistics vs state average? yawn. Art existed in ancient cave artifacts. No need for government funding!! Athletes will always exist with or without government funding. It is not a "dire necessity"; please, give that a break, Gayous! The whole idea of nonprofits being exempt from paying taxes IS government support and that is plenty! It is not sustainable that NGOs pay no taxes but expect to get tax money. CUT ALL FUNDING TO NGOs!! - realitycheck Fri, 26 Aug 2011 16:17:30 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21389 by Gaius Cilnius Maecenas "ignorance and stupidity do not advance economic well-being!" ------------------ Pardon me for being stupid but money in my pocket is better than the governments pocket. - Cracklin Patin Fri, 26 Aug 2011 15:48:26 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21384 To the Group: An artistic community and its governmental support is not a luxury, it is a dire necessity! It promotes healthy mental culture, a competitive spirit of non-hostile rivalry, and, most importantly, it educates a community in human survival. It is to be compared to athletics! A community has the option to neither support athletics or artists---it is these blighted communities that feed the criminal justice system, which we all end up paying for! There is no free lunch in nature! Excellent article Walter! Mr. Miller and Mr. Handwerk deserve praise for their many years of service to this community and our state. Close-minded, intolerant & spiteful minds hiding behind financial numbers in a city budget miss the forest for the trees: ignorance and stupidity do not advance economic well-being! These foolish minds need to study the economics of an artistic system astutely before they burden our collective minds with their falsity! - Gaius Cilnius Maecenas Fri, 26 Aug 2011 14:15:30 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21366 Very good ragin. Nevertheless, I am uncertain that the the Horse Farm should be part of NGO funds. As to sandoll, there must be a NGO out there with angry management classes. Should sandoll take them, it is tax dollars well spent. :) - William Morvant Fri, 26 Aug 2011 09:58:03 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8880-gay-and-ok#comment-21363 sandoll -- I'd guess that William has seen me provide specific examples when asked before, so he now accepts what I say without asking. Since YOU asked, I'll show you where my facts come from. In summer of 2009, according to theIND, NGO funding was a line item of $450,000 in the budget. There was a big dust-up on the council about it, and a failed vote to end it. Link is here... http://www.theind.com/cover-story/4968 The following year, the spending for "NGO's" went up to $600,000. They split out AcA funding, and they sent the rest to Berthelot's appointed committee to disburse so the Council wouldn't have to stand up and vote for it every year like real men. If you add up all the line items from 2009 NGO funding that are still around in 2010-2011 finalized budget, you get $600,000. You can check my math right here.... http://www.theind.com/news/7027-horse-farm-ngos-big-winners-in-budget-finalization 256K + 289K + 59K = 600K. I haven't even looked at the budget for 2008, yet. I haven't added in the Horse Farm spending yet. I haven't added in all the money that gets funneled to "Public Private Partnerships" through LEDA, yet. Then there's the CFA.... I called my councilman, Don Bertrand, about this and put the numbers to him when the second article came out. He told me at that time that he didn't know if my numbers were correct or not, but that I just didn't understand, and that I wasn't "getting it" (sounds just like Walter Pierce). Not knowing as much then as I do now about the budget meetings and budget process, I wasn't knowledgeable enough to ask him why he didn't know if my numbers were right when he had just gotten through with weeks of budget meetings and had voted to approve those very numbers in the finalized budget. I would say that you're not "STUCK here with the small minds". I'd say you're stuck here with analytical and well informed minds who are thinking for themselves about public policy and are ready to defend their position with facts. - ragin_cajun Fri, 26 Aug 2011 08:34:37 +0100