Comments for RE: Underplayed by Outreach? at http://www.theind.com , comment 1 to 41 out of 20 comments http://www.theind.com Sat, 18 May 2013 22:44:09 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21751 [R]agin_cajun: I stand corrected about Ludwig Heinrich Edler von Mises being a member alongside of his brother in the Vienna Circle. I thought there were two brothers involved, in which one brother left. I thought it was they. My treatise on "Logical Positivism" published by Free Press evidently has not made its way back into my classical library (where I thought I had read it). This reply to you, will permit me to give the link that I wanted to give (you had already given the www.mises.org link), namely, http://mises.org/etexts/austrian.pdf (six pages). The general readership here can see how many Frenchmen have contributed to our historical economic studies. Now I want to hear about your lucid insights on the Derivative market. Can you be equally brilliant? How is your lovely wife doing? I wanted you to ask her some questions about her late learned father from a previous posting. Lastly, I observed with pleasure that Richard von Mises took his undergraduate degree in Latin & mathematics! Classical language scholarship and mathematics seem to be deadly in forming a first-rate intellect! - Gaius Cilnius Maecenas Tue, 06 Sep 2011 15:34:34 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21723 I think Gauis and ragin cajun have connected, I wonder whose on " first ? - NORTHSIDIAN SHOTGUN Sat, 03 Sep 2011 21:07:26 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21720 Nah, Gaius. Richard Von Mises was the positivist, member of the Vienna Circle, and younger brother to Ludwig. Ludwig was the Austrian school economist. Richard was an engineer/physical scientist, cold logic and positivism type mind. But Ludwig was certainly the intellect in that family, which is saying a lot. The dumbie in that family was still a mental giant. I think Ludwig and Richards father was also an academic, too. So the brothers were raised around books, culture, intellectual conversation, seeing an adult earn a living from education. - ragin_cajun Sat, 03 Sep 2011 18:30:12 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21713 Gauis, your kudos to our fellow misguided poster, sir ragin-cajun, are really reflective of a deep seated repulsiveness towards mankind, if I may ask, have you ever seeked treament at AOC, suh ? - NORTHSIDIAN SHOTGUN Sat, 03 Sep 2011 09:35:16 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21686 [R]agin_cajun: Wonderful, lucid observations! Kudos to you for putting some people to work! You were thoughtful enough to frame your response to me vis-a-vis Roubini, for that I thank you. I had read one of Milton's books (I forget which one) that one of my brothers had given me to read. I have never read any books written by Friedrich August von Hayek. I should have, since he won the Nobel Prize in Economics in 1974. I need to read his book, "The Fatal Conceit." It is not commonly known, but Hayek was fundamentally an epistemologist. And with you, I concur with his philosophical defense of moral and institutional conservatism as against rationalistic reformers, and, obviously, monitored free markets, as against command economics, that he asserts, interferes inefficiently with the flow of economic information within a society. Also, I had to read in my young university years, one book by Joseph Schumpeter (which I also forget what it's title was. And super thanks for the www.mises.org link. I am of ancestral Austrian bloodline, so Ludwig Heinrich Edler von Mises (1881-1973) has always been on my radar. I will explore more cogently academic papers presented by the Austrian School of Economics. I still need to read his books, "Liberalismus" (1927) and "Human Action: A Treatise on Economics (1949). As I am sure you know, he was a member of the Vienna Circle. What do we do with these 22 million human beings---simply pretend they don't exist? Issue vapid pious platitudes as to how sad their plight is? Wait twenty years until our economy is growing again? P.S. Do you post here when you are in your cups? Here you are charming, sincere and lucid. In other postings, repulsive, nasty, illiterate and accusatory. How do you explain this in your behavior? - Gaius Cilnius Maecenas Fri, 02 Sep 2011 13:29:29 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21678 Landes' book was written for the public at large, for the layperson. That is what I meant, and what I probably should have said. That the book had an effect on boardrooms is not impressive to me, as I think "boardrooms" harbor some of the dullest minds our country has to offer--little better than the halls of Congress. Roubini also writes for the pubic at large. Nothing wrong with that so long as the reader sees it for what it is. Some of my favorite economists wrote famous works for the layperson that are more relavent today than ever -- Milton Friedman's Free to Choose, F.A. Hayek's The Road to Serfdom. I'd HIGHLY recommend reading/watching/listening to the lectures and classes available for free at mises.org to understand free markets, capitalism, collectivism, central planning, and economics. What I would propose to get people "back to work"? My answer is two fold. Let me approach it using Roubini's work as a guide since that is who you would probably give the most credence to. I don't think you're ready to consider free markets and individual liberty as a solution, yet. Roubini, in Crisis Economics, lays out the modern tools available to policy makers to deal with crises--easing, stimulus, backing, bail-outs, etc. He explains that there is no "free lunch", how these tools "come home to roost" in an economy later on. Roubini says that at some point, the cure becomes as bad as the disease--my words--and he describes how this happened to Japan. Either debt raises interest rates and depresses business, or central bank "monetizing" devalues the currency and inflates prices. This isn't speculative, or exotic, it's a fair statement of fact from Roubini. So as a government "policy maker", or more accurately, "central planner" as they were called in the past, I think it's time to stand up and say publicly that we have come to a point in the US where government policy is out of bullets. Look at what Bush and Obama have done, and tell me what more CAN they do? QE3? Another stimulus deal? Forgive all the home loans? FORCE companies to hire, to expand? US debt levels are too high to "finance" more of this. Even if we could, the payments later down the road would cause stagflation or hyper-inflation. As an individual, me personally, I can tell you what I do to get our American people back to work. I hire them. I started a business two years ago, in the midst of the greatest economic crisis of a lifetime, and it is profitable. I hire people. I train them to deal with "high tech" communications equipment, and I try to show them what their true value is as an employee. They have all moved on to higher paying jobs. My national competitors have received stimulus money so they can continue to produce an inferior product yet stay in business. Congress is currently considering legislation that would drastically increase my cost of doing business. Federal regulations prevent me from expanding my business to enter new markets. So if government wants ME to hire more and grow my business, best thing they could do is deregulate and stop giving tax dollars to my competitors. Although a bit off topic, perhaps this unemployment problem is to be expected. We've seen 15 years of INCREDIBLE technological change in the workplace with computers and internetworking. Productivity gains measured by BLS certainly confirm this. Maybe easy credit, tax cuts, and other stimulative gimmicks in the Clinton and Bush years delayed the inevitable unemployment caused by such sudden and drastic technological innovation? Also, unemployment and surplus cash on the sidelines will eventually lead to economic growth--Schumpeter's Creative Destruction concept. This WILL happen, if, as Roubini points out, the government has the discipline to not be stampeded into ever more debilitating episodes of deficit spending under the guise of "stimulus", "easing", "transfer payments". As for letting people "starve to death" or "commit suicide"...why don't we leave this kind of hyperbole out the discourse, and keep it serious and thoughtful? - ragin_cajun Fri, 02 Sep 2011 08:24:03 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21664 Walter, if you want the rest of the story. Check out the campain donations from Greg to local candidates. - Ben Thu, 01 Sep 2011 20:14:22 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21650 [R]agin_cajun: Professor Landes' book is not a "cheesy popular economics type books." It is a serious treatise, and it had a dramatic impact on boardrooms. Much as Jared Diamond's two books, "Guns, Germs, and Steel" and "Collapse." Your observations on Landes' book are correct. That was in it also. I am going to re-read it, so his arguments are fresh in my mind. Glad to see we have another book in common. Happy to see you have a working knowledge of the Derivative Market. Have you read any papers published by the AMA [American Mathematical Association]? That is where I acquired my first superficial understanding of it. I would appreciate any comments from you as to its scope, economic impact, and what societal value it contributes to the global-local economy. Also, besides Partial Differential Equations, is there any other branches of higher mathematics that it makes use of? In serious economic matters (not Economic Historians discussing past economic matters), I rely on Professor Nouriel Roubini's RGE up-dates sent to my e-mail account. I just read his "Globl Financial Crisis 2.0: How to Rescue Capitalism" (August 12th, 2011). Whom do you consider competent in these matters? Or, at least worth one's reading? And most importantly, What would you propose to get our American people back to work? Twelve million Americans out of work; Ten million under-employed or not looking for work any more. Having 22 million people idle is an extraordinary waste of human capital! Should we just let them starve to death, or commit suicide due to dispair, to feed our financial economic investment model. - Gaius Cilnius Maecenas Thu, 01 Sep 2011 13:50:48 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21628 misguided Republican financial policies under the Bush presidency That would include funding to NGOs which needs to stop!! - realitycheck Thu, 01 Sep 2011 06:45:29 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21626 Gaius-- Read it. One of these cheesy popular economics type books you see in airport bookstores. That's where I bought my copy. The book was an attempt to explain why some countries were able to build successful economies and some weren't. It went over theories of the past, like climate and latitude, which was interesting--colder northern countries have been much more successful than hotter equatorial countries. As I recall, Landes settles on cultural traits to explain it. I don't remember any of the nonsense you're spewing. I have quite a bit of experience with options, commodities, and DE, so I'd be glad to discuss derivatives so long as you can control your outbursts and refrain from calling me a racist. - ragin_cajun Wed, 31 Aug 2011 21:28:39 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21618 [R]agin_cajun: I am beginning to wonder if you actually understand capitalism. This is proving to be a bad day for you, so I do not wish to add to it. But we really do have serious problems in this society, and a correct appealment of values that enrich the larger group is becoming more and more of a necessity. We have to work together to solve these problems. You had asked me to recommend another good book for you to read. Our present unemployment situation in this country is its top priority. You cannot solve a problem, if you don't understand how it arose in the first place. I would suggest you read, "The Wealth and Poverty of Nations: Why Some are so Rich and Some so Poor" by David S. Landes (Professor Emeritus of History and Economics at Harvard University), (W. W. Norton & Company, 1998) 650 pp. I picked up a copy at a second-hand bookstore, and had to pay only $5.00 for my copy. What it teaches is that when a society takes its wealth to invest in other countries to maximize that society's many firms' business profits, these firms are not re-investing their profits in the society that was the source of those firms' initial profits. The end result is horrible poverty for that once rich society. Spain is the classic example of this stupidity. Great Britain made the same mistake in the late 18th century and early 19th century. One must draw a sharp distinction between a "Main Street" economy and a "Financial Economy." A financial economy only benefits a few. It is an artifical economy. We do not eat paper money or gold coins, do we? However, we do use these items in our commercial transactions. After you have read this brilliant treatise written in an engaging prose style, I will be interested in your feedback. By the way, did you read all the footnotes in Dr. Sam Harris' treatise, "The Moral Landscape." I read it three times to internalize his many observations, especially, noting his extensive footnotes---where his real genius is demonstrated as a philosopher. Later, I think all of us should have a discussion about the role of Derivatives in our global Financial economic system (requires competence in Partial Differential Equations in Higher Mathematics). After all, there is a global $350 Trillion Dollars leveraged on top of an actual $55 Trillion Dollars actual cash system. To put this global wealth in perspective, the world generates around $44 Trillion Dollars per year (2009 numbers). Remember, under President Bush around 2008, our society lost $12 Trillion Dollars (we went from $62 Trillion Dollars to $50 Trillion Dollars). Just the Middle Class lost $One Trillion Dollars in their 401Ks. I mention these boring details, since we require at least $5 Trillion Dollars's investment to restore the damage done to our society by misguided Republican financial policies under the Bush presidency, if we are going to get our people back to work! Don't forget someone stole that money, we need to get it back. - Gaius Cilnius Maecenas Wed, 31 Aug 2011 18:14:04 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21612 no chance of them hiding and shredding docs, is there? anybody watching for that? - krista fontenot Wed, 31 Aug 2011 17:21:04 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21604 ragin, we don't consider accountants to be ideological opponents. In fact, we're rather fond of accountants: They keep tabs on the gobs of filthy, ill-gotten moolah we make raking the muck around here. kc, my apologies for use of the term -- I meant no disrespect, and frankly this mea culpa is as much about perturbing ragin_cajun's blood pressure than ameliorating your chagrin. - Walter Pierce Wed, 31 Aug 2011 16:28:58 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21601 Been There: God Bless You and anyone who has come through your addictions and been restored! Best of luck to you!! Try not to take it personally. While no doubt, some people have been helped by this organization and many, many other agencies like for instance, St. Francis Foundation, I would agree that they should be shut down. They grew too big and were a large burden to the surrounding community for the way that they operated. Requests for tighter controls, particularly in the area of security have long been ignored. Now, with all of this financial craziness and disregard of regulations and procedures, they really have absolutely no credibility. I resent any of my tax money going to this agency. There are other agencies in this town which will cotinue their good works and they are more responsive to neighborhood issues. Smaller & scattered sites would better serve this community. - realitycheck Wed, 31 Aug 2011 16:10:06 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21600 "I find the continued use of the term "bean counter" by your paper to refer to someone in the accounting profession to be offensive." Dude, where have you been? This paper routinely uses much worse insults against ideological oppoonents and has for the entire 2 years I've been watching it. If you came here for responsible discourse and coverage of public events, you've got a rude awakening coming. They'll occassionally cut into the rich, too. I've even seen this paper insult its very own readers! - ragin_cajun Wed, 31 Aug 2011 16:02:22 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21599 "Perhaps you don't have a problem paying too much mark-up so that someone else may live in extravagant luxury. " So who exactly are you talking about, Layne? All this "mark up" stuff is nothing more than your poor estimation of the cost of goods in the marketplace. If you really believe there is some "mark up", then pick any product that is marked up, produce it yourself for less mark up, and enjoy the rewards. Sitting here wishing it were so, and offering no more evidence for it than your repeatedly saying it is so doesn't actually make it true. "hate-merchant" This from a person who calls Capitalists racists. - ragin_cajun Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:57:28 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21598 To the Group: Let's keep our focus on the Addicted Community! Any bright ideas here as to how to turn these lives around? As I have learned from too many addicts I have known over the years, "Recovery is a very slow, painful journey." Many do not even seek help, until health issues arise. In the great scheme of things, I concur with the editorial judgment expressed in the second to last paragraph. Wrong doing had been detected eventually. Trial and error is still our best course of action to improve a situation. Are we not fortunate to have the Acadiana Outreach Center? I think our community is better for it! When you point your finger at your fellow man, remember, three fingers are pointing back at you! - Gaius Cilnius Maecenas Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:38:55 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21596 kc, Trust me, I'm referred to as a hack quite frequently. - Walter Pierce Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:20:27 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21595 I find the continued use of the term "bean counter" by your paper to refer to someone in the accounting profession to be offensive. Perhaps we should start refering to journalists as "hacks". - kc Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:08:26 +0100 http://www.theind.com/re/8940-underplayed-by-outreach#comment-21592 There is only one solution. Shut down Acadiana Outreach. They are just a well organized money grab. They don't help the homeless, addicts or anyone. But, they do help themselves don't they? If anyone is really surprised by all of this then they are just fools. The evidence has been there ALL along. So what do we have here really? Is it just a bunch of criminal managing a bunch of poorer criminals? Of course ALL on OUR dime. At least with private industry it's private money. Layne acts like it's her money and her business. When you say PRIVATE company - then that's what it is Layne - PRIVATE. But, when you use PUBLIC taxpayer money - then and only then do you get to have an opinion about it. So your bizarre comparasion doesn't hold any water. SHUT THEM ALL DOWN and stop giving taxpayer money to NGO's. - FBEYE Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:48:12 +0100