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Gay and OK

Wednesday, August 24, 2011

It should be a point of pride that Lafayette’s LGBT community is relatively robust.

About the only eyebrow-raiser in Lafayette Parish having the second highest per capita number of same-sex couples in Louisiana behind Orleans is that the 2010 census data was crunched by UCLA School of Law’s Williams Institute, leading me to conclude that “Williams” is code for rainbow. Or unicorn. Or unicorn giving birth to teacup Yorkies in a manger festooned with rainbow-colored ribbons. 
I’m exaggerating a lot.

But seriously, at 8.58 same-sex couples per 1,000 households, the Lafayette Parish number is higher than the state average of 7.03, which is also the national average, although far below the 13.58 per 1,000 in New Orleans. Yet it is still a respectable showing for several reasons and underscores a common perception in Lafayette that we are more like New Orleans than any other Louisiana city or parish.

“It doesn’t surprise me at all,” says Colin Miller, South Louisiana field director for Forum for Equality, an advocacy group that lobbies state and local lawmakers on LGBT issues. “Aside from New Orleans, there’s nowhere else in the state I’d want to live.”

But does this data qualify Lafayette as a “gay-friendly” parish?

“I wouldn’t go as far as to say we are the ‘second-most gay friendly parish’ in the state; I don’t think we can make that claim by this data set,” says Stephen Handwerk, a Midwestern native and Lafayette resident who is also co-chair of the Stonewall Democrats, the blue counterpart to the GOP’s Log Cabin Republicans.

“However, I would say that the investment in the creative class and the support for the arts is certainly something that is a large draw,” Handwerk continues. “When you combine that with the friendly environment it certainly is easy to fall in love with this city, as my partner of 10 years and I have.”

Handwerk nails it: Among the points of orthodoxy for modern city planning is the notion that the vitality of a community’s LGBT population is an indicator of how progressive that community is — and by progressive I don’t mean liberal, socialist or Kenyan — of its level of commitment to funding arts, culture, recreation, urban renewal, technology and other initiatives that are attractive to the creative class.

Lafayette is followed in descending order by St. Bernard, Tangipahoa and East Baton Rouge to round out the top five. Digging deeper into the data an interesting demographic pattern emerges: While overall same-sex couples tend to cluster in urban areas in South Louisiana, those couples raising children tend to eschew the more heavily populated areas, seeking out the relative quiet of rural enclaves, including in far northeastern Louisiana — Richland Parish and the Carrolls East and West.

Lafayette’s strong showing, and South Louisiana’s overall rankings for same-sex couples, could — and this is my speculation, shared by others — be attributed to another important demographic, specifically the higher proportion of Roman Catholics and/or relatively lower number of evangelical protestants compared to north Louisiana.

“I think that generally people in Lafayette are more laid back and accepting, and the Bible Belt does not have a huge foothold in Lafayette like it does in other areas of the state,” observes Miller. “I do think it has a lot to do with our heritage, and our Catholic history, which tends to be a little more ‘live and let live’ than the fundamentalist-protestant history.”

But while the LGBT community is a bellwether for how progressive and tolerant our community is, and Lafayette’s ranking within the state should be a point of pride for us, the gay population is also a canary in our coal mine. The vitality of our LGBT community, its willingness to stitch itself into the fabric of Lafayette and to be a player in our civic life, depends on our continued embrace of those things that make us attractive to creative spirits. If our gay population retracts it reflects an abandonment of part of what makes Lafayette such a great place to live and raise a family. Witness the recent budget amendment aimed at cutting off funding to the arts. It will fail thanks to a coalition of Republicans and Democrats on the council that values our culture, but it’s a sign that we must remain vigilant against Tea Party pablum and its know-nothing imperatives.

I draw one other conclusion from the data: Louisiana Family Forum is blowing an opportunity to rail against the gay horde hacking feverishly at the monolith, because if my wife discovers how many gay couples Lafayette is home to, she’ll divorce my sorry ass and become a lesbian.


Walter Pierce
About the author:


Comments (53)add
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written by ragin_cajun , August 24, 2011 - 08:31 am
So you're saying that we should make spending decisions and public policy decisions based on what's good for the Gay and Lesbian Community in Lafayette.
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written by kd , August 24, 2011 - 11:04 am
Let's see, should a coal company make spending decisions based on what's good for for the canary sitting atop the coal miner's lid?
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written by Huh? , August 24, 2011 - 11:58 am
Did I read that last paragraph right? The only thing holding your marriage together is ignorance of the ultimate alternative?
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written by Cracklin Patin , August 24, 2011 - 12:16 pm
Handwerk nails it: "is the notion that the vitality of a community’s LGBT population is an indicator of how progressive that community is"
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Nail it? That's a subject generalization with no basis, coupled with a bunch of rhetoric. A/k/a B.S.
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written by Misplace NYer , August 24, 2011 - 12:25 pm
For a community to work, there must be cultural diversity, entertainment for different types of people, films, food, etc. If I came to Lafayette today instead of 12 yrs ago, I may not have not despised it as much. Today a new infux of people (ex. creative staff for Pixar, artists, restaurateurs, different types of gyms & sport activities, communities with their own dog parks, and more. We even have a small film group which started up recently. I realize we were about 20-25 yrs behind other cities, but Lafayette has come a long way in the past six years.

To quote an article adapted from Richard Florida adapted from his book, "The Rise of The Creative Class: and How it's Transforming Work... I read years ago....

"The benefits of this kind of strategy are obvious. Whereas companies---or sports teams, for that matter---that get financial incentives can pull up and leave at virtually a moment's notice, investments in amenities like urban parks, for example, last for generations. Other amenities---like bike lanes or off-road trails for running, cycling, rollerblading, or just walking your dog---benefit a wide swath of the population.

There is no one-size-fits-all model for a successful people climate. The members of the creative class are diverse across the dimensions of age, ethnicity and race, marital status, and sexual preference. An effective people climate needs to emphasize openness and diversity, and to help reinforce low barriers to entry. Thus, it cannot be restrictive or monolithic.

Openness to immigration is particularly important for smaller cities and regions, while the ability to attract so-called bohemians is key for larger cities and regions. For cities and regions to attract these groups, they need to develop the kinds of people climates that appeal to them and meet their needs.

Yet if you ask most community leaders what kinds of people they'd most want to attract, they'd likely say successful married couples in their 30s and 40s---people with good middle-to-upper-income jobs and stable family lives. I certainly think it is important for cities and communities to be good for children and families. But less than a quarter of all American households consist of traditional nuclear families, and focusing solely on their needs has been a losing strategy, one that neglects a critical engine of economic growth: young people."


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written by Cracklin Patin , August 24, 2011 - 03:45 pm
by Misplace NYer "I realize we were about 20-25 yrs behind other cities, but Lafayette has come a long way in the past six years."
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Behind? I presume you mean U.S. cities? With few exceptions, most of planet is light years behind. Heck, Gueydan is a leading edge city compared to most of Europe.

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written by queenbee , August 24, 2011 - 04:13 pm
I guess you had wayyyyyy too much time on your hands this week, Wally. All I can say is....really?
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written by Aaron , August 24, 2011 - 04:17 pm
"For cities and regions to attract these groups [bohemians], they need to develop the kinds of people climates that appeal to them and meet their needs."

In Lafayette, at least, it seems what they need is municipal cash spent on the arts and other social services. Most "bohemians" are not very self-sufficient, being that they have followed their passion, the arts; an industry that pays a few very handsomely while the rest linger in poverty. The cry for more municipal spending on themselves is constant and very loud.

"Yet if you ask most community leaders what kinds of people they'd most want to attract, they'd likely say successful married couples in their 30s and 40s---people with good middle-to-upper-income jobs and stable family lives."

Most community leaders want these kinds of people because they form the tax base that pays for the services that a community needs, as well as the constand demands of the "artistic crowd". These middle-aged families are headed by couples that have either found a passion that pays handsomely or have made their passion a hobby while they take jobs that pay for their family's needs. These people are also a lesser strain on government services like policing and public education (since many send their kids to private school but pay for a public education system they don't use).

It is not a losing strategy in any way for a municipality to focus on attracting the type of people who pay the bills for the rest and have very little need of many of the services that that municipality offers.


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written by Lib , August 24, 2011 - 06:04 pm
What may have been missed - is that by attracting the types most people think of as creative (artists, musicians, actors) you then attract other people who are successful in their well-paid professions because they are creative and thinking outside the box - like doctors, engineers, architects, graphic designers, economists, financiers, city planners, etc. Many of these people - single, divorced or without school-age children as well as the minority that are married with kids - want cultural and entertainment options beyond the pick-up bars and theaters running mass marketed movies. They are interested in art and craft shows, museums, independent films, live stage plays, and a range of live music from jazz and indie to rock and classical, as well as local cajun and zydeco. By attracting the people who produce these cultural goods we attract and retain the brightest and most talented producers. And artists typically appreciate communities that are open-minded, tolerant and accepting of differences.
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written by RCajunrunner , August 24, 2011 - 07:00 pm
All fine and dandy. If someone wants to financially support the arts, they should with their money with their free will. Government should not force taxpayers to cover the costs of goods and services offered by non-governmental organizations, plain and simply.

I've already given donations to both culture groups and social services. Government should not be forcing me to, via public taxes.
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written by Walter Pierce , August 24, 2011 - 07:49 pm
Indeed, RCajunrunner, and by your reasoning urbanites who never traverse a rural road or bridge should not be forced to underwrite them with taxes.
They don't use it, why should they pay for it?
But then again and thankfully, some believe in the concept of "the greater good" and willingly pay those taxes anyway.
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written by James Melancon , August 24, 2011 - 08:12 pm
written by Walter Pierce "some believe in the concept of "the greater good" and willingly pay those taxes anyway"
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Ah, there's the rub. Just what is the greater good? And who decides? Does a bare majority subject the minority to its will? When someone speaks of the greater good, our wallets become lighter.
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written by RCajunrunner , August 25, 2011 - 04:08 am
Except for one major point, Walter. Bridges and roads, unless private, ARE responsibilities of government, hence the designation of U.S., state, parish or city road.

I would agree that, for example, state government should not give funding for a parish-owned bridge. However, in the case of Lafayette Parish, rural and city has been "consolidated". Unless the people vote to de-consolidate, then it will be the responsibility of LCG to maintain parish roads and bridges.

Has Acadiana Arts Council also consolidated with LCG? Are they now part of Lafayette government? Where was the public vote on that?
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written by Sidwit , August 25, 2011 - 07:28 am
Less than 1% of the married couples and Mr. Pierce has determined that we are the gay capital(next to New Orleans) of Louisiana! Using his logic we could be the straight couple capital, or the mixed race couple capital, or the not married but shacking ass couple capital, or the blond haired couple capital of Louisiana. Is he pushing an agenda or he had nothing else to write about?
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written by ragin_cajun , August 25, 2011 - 08:00 am
" "some believe in the concept of "the greater good" and willingly pay those taxes anyway"

Spoken like a man who consumes more taxes than he pays. People only pay taxes out of the kindness or their heart when they believe those taxes are being put to good use. When people don't believe that anymore, they still have to pay their taxes because if they don't, government seizes their property and imprisons them. You ALWAYS gloss over that, Walter.

As for arts funding....the difference between spending tax dollars on bridges, roads, drainage and infrastructure and spending those dollars on "arts" is profound. When LCG floats bonds to build a road, or bridge, or power plant, that is a real hard asset that LCG owns and banks/financiers/bond traders can place an appraised monetary value on. LCG has borrowed money to pay for something that has value, and increases the assets of LCG. LCG can borrow up to some percentage of the assessed value of its assets. LCG has bought something real, that can in turn be borrowed against later.

Arts spending is not like that. Especially not when the tax dollars that fund the arts go to 7 other parishes outside of Lafayette. NGO's serve all the surrounding parishes, yet none of those parishes contribute to NGO funding in Lafayette, do they?

But all of this is old hat, we've been over it all several times, and it all misses the point of this article.

In this article, Walter is taking a meaningless statistic and conflating it to propose that we should make public policy in Lafayette based on what's good for the LGBT community. He actually says that if we don't spend this money, we are not tolerant. And then, by extension, the TEA Party is against this so the TEA Party is against gay people.

Are you sure you want to start following people's lines of reasoning, Walter? Because I shudder to think where we'd end up if we followed the line of reasoning YOU'VE proposed here.


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written by William Morvant , August 25, 2011 - 08:25 am
The Rise of The Creative Class: and How it's Transforming Work... Is an illusion, a religion. And Walter is one of the high priests who wants us to believe. To believe by paying higher taxes to fund the hobbies of slackers, posers, trust fund babies, and the sugar Daddy (or Momma) financed German luxury car driving feeble minded, we all will be better off. Like all religions, it has no existential basis.
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written by Walter Pierce , August 25, 2011 - 09:20 am
A high priest, William? Surely you've misinterpreted the embroidery on my vestments.
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written by RCajunrunner , August 25, 2011 - 12:58 pm
Walter a high priest? I just thought he was always plain high when writing these op-eds!
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written by Walter Pierce , August 25, 2011 - 01:12 pm
Good one, RCajunrunner. Touché!
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written by sandoll , August 25, 2011 - 01:14 pm
Funding of the arts in this community brings in DOLLARS from outside. When our local government funds art programs, Festival International, Festival Acadian etc. etc. it brings in people who spend money in our community. MOST people also want to LIVE in a vibrant community with arts, theater, festivals, music. It is money well spent.
Many of your comments sound as if you think artists of all kinds are slackers(??) who don't pay much taxes or none at all. They just live on the government largesse!! Ridiculous. Many artists in our community have full time jobs in addition to being artists. Obviously some here (in this forum) have no interest in arts or artistic abilities.
And to "cracklin patin"--Gueydan??? Really? Have you ever been to Europe? That had to be a joke.
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written by Compassionate One , August 25, 2011 - 01:21 pm
LOL at Walter and RC! Stand up comedy you guys?
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written by Cracklin Patin , August 25, 2011 - 01:35 pm
written by sandoll"to "cracklin patin"--Gueydan??? Really? Have you ever been to Europe?
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Yes (to Europe and Gueydan), have you ever been to Bulgaria?
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written by William Morvant , August 25, 2011 - 01:40 pm
written by sandoll "Funding of the arts in this community brings in DOLLARS from outside."
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OK, where is your data? Real data, not some guess by a government toady. Besides if you bring DOLLARS in from outside, then some place goes without dollars which is a zero sum game.
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written by sandoll , August 25, 2011 - 02:03 pm
Wow, William. Every time someone writes any information or opinion in forums nowadays--"Where did that come from?" "Show me facts!" "you don't have real data!" "Came from a government toady!" All defense mechanisms that have been heard before. Snore!
The information on the arts bringing in money was in an article in the Daily Advertiser some months back. Sorry, I don't have the exact date. Of course, you probably think the Advertiser is a liberal "rag". Sad talking points all the time. Heavy sigh.
The dollars for some of the arts come in from other states and other countries. Or don't you like those dollars coming into our community. Zero sum game??? doesn't make sense as we are talking about OUR community.
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written by William Morvant , August 25, 2011 - 02:16 pm
by sandoll "William. Every time someone writes any information or opinion in forums nowadays. . . Show me facts"
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Yes, those darn facts. They do get in way of opinion. Nonetheless, if you make a statement about a quantity of dollars you need to have evidence. If not, you are just guessing.
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written by ragin_cajun , August 25, 2011 - 02:19 pm
LCG's funding for NGO's has gone up over 50% in the last three years. LCG's budget this year is looking like it will be a bit less--we'll know for sure when the Budget Meetings are finshed. LCG's budget is under stress because receipts are off slightly, and pension funds are gobbling it up.

So when exactly is all this arts funding gonna pay dividends?

If the AcA is bringing all this money into the community, then why does LCG have to pay to keep the doors open? If arts is such a great investment, why is it that private investors haven't rushed in to crowd out public investment?

If arts funding is bringing in this big "artistic class" that is so stimulative to our local economy, then why is downtown--which was "renovated" with tax dollars--full of night clubs?
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written by Aug31 , August 25, 2011 - 02:24 pm
I'm proud, and gay and these comments are ridiculous, Small mindedness is why I'm moving.. New Orleans here I com.
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written by Cracklin Patin , August 25, 2011 - 03:18 pm
written by Aug31 "Small mindedness is why I'm moving.. New Orleans here I com."
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I don't care where you come or go. Just avoid the bushes at Cathedral Carmel.
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written by ragin_cajun , August 25, 2011 - 08:54 pm
"avoid the bushes at Cathedral Carmel. "

What's that mean?
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written by sandoll , August 25, 2011 - 09:27 pm
OK, William. Ask ol Ragin Cajun where the heck are his facts coming from. You don't because you agree with them even though he gives no info where its from. Ugly mean minds breed ugly mean people. Wish I could go with you to New Orleans,gay buddy, but I am STUCK here with the small minds. No wonder LA is last in everything. Sure wish people would TRY to get an education and broaden their horizons but not gonna happen. They will never do it and never leave their small minded towns and LA will go down the rabbit hole. Sigh.
Yes, facts do get in the way of discussions and insight but you keep bringing up the FACT that we MUST have them or you just won't listen or learn. Sad. You only want facts when you don't agree. Turns my stomach. Leaving.
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written by William Morvant , August 26, 2011 - 07:39 am
by Walter Pierce "A high priest, William? Surely you've misinterpreted the embroidery on my vestments."
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Check E-bay. Gadhafi’s togs will be offered soon. He’s has, or had, some nice stuff.
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written by William Morvant , August 26, 2011 - 07:51 am
by sandoll "OK, William. Ask ol Ragin Cajun where the heck are his facts coming from."
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Good point. I missed that one. OK, Ragin, where did you get your information? I too question the 50% increase to NGOs, actually I think it is an unlikely number.

Ragin, as to "avoid the bushes at Cathedral Carmel", you just have to google it and find out. I am not certain Walter will let me discuss the matter.

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written by William Morvant , August 26, 2011 - 08:20 am
by sandoll "Yes, facts do get in the way of discussions and insight but you keep bringing up the FACT that we MUST have them or you just won't listen or learn. Sad. You only want facts when you don't agree. Turns my stomach."
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Sorry, but I disagree. I did listen otherwise I would have never responded. Just like in court, you must have evidence. Without evidence, then your opinions are theory, or worse, a fallacy.

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written by ragin_cajun , August 26, 2011 - 08:34 am
sandoll --

I'd guess that William has seen me provide specific examples when asked before, so he now accepts what I say without asking.

Since YOU asked, I'll show you where my facts come from. In summer of 2009, according to theIND, NGO funding was a line item of $450,000 in the budget. There was a big dust-up on the council about it, and a failed vote to end it. Link is here... http://www.theind.com/cover-story/4968

The following year, the spending for "NGO's" went up to $600,000. They split out AcA funding, and they sent the rest to Berthelot's appointed committee to disburse so the Council wouldn't have to stand up and vote for it every year like real men. If you add up all the line items from 2009 NGO funding that are still around in 2010-2011 finalized budget, you get $600,000. You can check my math right here.... http://www.theind.com/news/702...nalization

256K + 289K + 59K = 600K.

I haven't even looked at the budget for 2008, yet. I haven't added in the Horse Farm spending yet. I haven't added in all the money that gets funneled to "Public Private Partnerships" through LEDA, yet. Then there's the CFA....

I called my councilman, Don Bertrand, about this and put the numbers to him when the second article came out. He told me at that time that he didn't know if my numbers were correct or not, but that I just didn't understand, and that I wasn't "getting it" (sounds just like Walter Pierce). Not knowing as much then as I do now about the budget meetings and budget process, I wasn't knowledgeable enough to ask him why he didn't know if my numbers were right when he had just gotten through with weeks of budget meetings and had voted to approve those very numbers in the finalized budget.

I would say that you're not "STUCK here with the small minds". I'd say you're stuck here with analytical and well informed minds who are thinking for themselves about public policy and are ready to defend their position with facts.
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written by William Morvant , August 26, 2011 - 09:58 am
Very good ragin. Nevertheless, I am uncertain that the the Horse Farm should be part of NGO funds.

As to sandoll, there must be a NGO out there with angry management classes. Should sandoll take them, it is tax dollars well spent. :)
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written by Gaius Cilnius Maecenas , August 26, 2011 - 02:15 pm
To the Group:

An artistic community and its governmental support is not a luxury, it is a dire necessity! It promotes healthy mental culture, a competitive spirit of non-hostile rivalry, and, most importantly, it educates a community in human survival. It is to be compared to athletics!

A community has the option to neither support athletics or artists---it is these blighted communities that feed the criminal justice system, which we all end up paying for! There is no free lunch in nature!

Excellent article Walter! Mr. Miller and Mr. Handwerk deserve praise for their many years of service to this community and our state. Close-minded, intolerant & spiteful minds hiding behind financial numbers in a city budget miss the forest for the trees: ignorance and stupidity do not advance economic well-being! These foolish minds need to study the economics of an artistic system astutely before they burden our collective minds with their falsity!
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written by Cracklin Patin , August 26, 2011 - 03:48 pm
by Gaius Cilnius Maecenas "ignorance and stupidity do not advance economic well-being!"
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Pardon me for being stupid but money in my pocket is better than the governments pocket.

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written by realitycheck , August 26, 2011 - 04:17 pm
8 in a 1,000 instead of 7? yawn! City statistics vs state average? yawn.

Art existed in ancient cave artifacts. No need for government funding!! Athletes will always exist with or without government funding. It is not a "dire necessity"; please, give that a break, Gayous! The whole idea of nonprofits being exempt from paying taxes IS government support and that is plenty! It is not sustainable that NGOs pay no taxes but expect to get tax money. CUT ALL FUNDING TO NGOs!!
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written by realitycheck , August 26, 2011 - 04:37 pm
The numbers were "adjusted".

The Williams Institute advances sexual orientation law and public policy through rigorous, independent research and scholarship, and disseminates it to judges, legislators, policymakers, media and the public. A national think tank at UCLA Law, the Williams Institute produces high quality research with real-world relevance.

Experts at the Williams Institute have authored dozens of public policy studies and law review articles, filed amicus briefs in key court cases, provided expert testimony at legislative hearings, been widely cited in the national media, and trained thousands of lawyers, judges and members of the public. By providing new ideas and reliable information, the Williams Institute makes a difference.

The Williams Institute was made possible through the vision and generosity of businessperson, academic, and philanthropist Charles R. Williams. Mr. Williams is the President of Williams & Associates and received his B.A. and M.B.A. from UCLA. Until 1985, Mr. Williams worked as a senior executive for Sperry Corporation, where he held several positions, including Vice President for Strategic and Business Planning and Vice President and General Manager for Worldwide Operations. Most recently, he has taught business courses in policy and strategy and consults in this area. Mr. Williams is also a board member of the UCLA Foundation.

Mr. Williams' inaugural donation of $2.5 million to create the Williams Institute was the largest donation ever given to any academic institution in support of a gay and lesbian academic program in any discipline. As the institute has grown, Mr. Williams has given over $12 million to support the organization's programs. Because of his generosity and support, the Institute has impacted policy throughout the country on important LGBT issues.



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written by Gaius Cilnius Maecenas , August 26, 2011 - 10:11 pm
To reality check:

Were you around 40,000 years ago to observe artistic productions in caves? What was its purpose? To breed confidence for the hunt which effected group survival! Gee, that sounds like government to me. Are you stupid enough to think that athletics and artistic productions do not effect human survival? What planet are you living on?
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written by ragin_cajun , August 27, 2011 - 07:43 am
Sounds like government to you? Cave art in a nomadic hunter-gather group before humans had even thought to live in one place and grow food sounds like government to you.

That's a profound misunderstanding of human history. Just complete nonsense.
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written by the original northsidian , August 27, 2011 - 08:17 am
WGAF! Live & Let Live!!
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written by realitycheck , August 27, 2011 - 12:07 pm
Gayest: Sounds like spirituality to me. Art and athletics have always and will always exist; with or without government funding. You can keep living in your world, and I will stay here on Earth.
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written by Gaius Cilnius Maecenas , August 27, 2011 - 01:10 pm
To ragin_cajun:

Your knowledge of pre-history is faulty! It was not the "nomadic" hunter-gatherers that did Cave Art; it was temporary sedentary "hunter-gathers' communities at rich food resources that did! Also, you did not focus on the key point: psychological confidence! [Which aided skill building in weapon usage].
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written by Gaius Cilnius Maecenas , August 27, 2011 - 01:34 pm
To the Group:

What is the value to a community for its financial support of the Athletic System and the Artistic System?

It is economic!

Since these dual programs were institutionalized by the ancient Greeks, and have been the mainstay of all wealthy urban centers in the Western Tradition since, one needs to know why these things were done by the ancient Greeks.

The answer is to be located in Homer's epic poem, The Iliad [6: 208 & 11: 783] codified around 750 BCE: aien aristeuein, kai hypeirochon emmenai allon [Ancient Ionic Greek, "Always to do one's best and to surpass others."]!

With hard work you achieve success in life. This aided human individual and communal survival! This is why a healthy athletic system and artistic system is a dire necessity for a community, despite the above comments from the usual collection of misers, curmudgeons & malcontents poisoning our civil community discourse!

Once again, I want to thank Walter for his charming letter to us [even though, the "sassy" wife comment left me some what perplexed, even though it was wittily expressed].
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written by ragin_cajun , August 28, 2011 - 10:26 am
GCM --

You're not making much sense here, buddy. You say the value to a community is ecomonic. But your quote from Homer is an expression of personal virtue. It does not support the position you state, because it does not show an economic benefit to public funding of the arts.

Now, if Homer laid out specific economic benefits to public investment in the Arts or Athletics, maybe this would make some sense. But an expression of Homer's idea of virtuous conduct is not an example of economic benefit, is it?

Then you say with hard work, you achieve success. That's true. And a community that has hard working and diligent members aids survival. That's true, too. But you fail to show exactly how public funding for arts programs produces a diligent citizenry.

I would say that public funding of arts programs encourages sloth and laziness. It encourages artists to seek unearned tax dollars for their projects instead of working to earn the money they need to produce art. Also, public funding insulates artists from the judgment of their audience. An artist can produce nonsense, or hyper-personal and self indulgent drivel, and continue to do so as long as he/she stays in good graces with the bureaucrat or "arts council" that disburses the public's wealth. Why bother refining and improving an artistic product when it doesn't really matter what the public at large thinks of the product?

Now that is two examples of how public arts funding encourages lazy, sloppy art. I think most would agree that there are many examples of public funding encouraging sloth and laziness, as opposed to increasing diligence and virute as you suggest.

In fact, I'm stunned to hear that someone would actually try to support the idea that public funding makes anyone more diligent. It's absurd.
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written by ragin_cajun , August 28, 2011 - 11:21 am
GCM --

I just HAVE to add some contributions from my wife to this discussion. She is laughing at you, Gaius. My wife immediately siezes on the most obvious,infamous and extreme example of the folly of public funding of arts and athletics in all of human history -- ANCIENT ROME. My wife points out that in Ancient Rome, lavish public spending by the rulers on athletic entertainment, games, arts, architectural projects, and statuary was legendary. This bankrupted the state, and was a key motivator of the wars of conquest all over the known world, using the plunder to once again fund more games, temples, artwork, and distraction. This cycle of plunder and subsidy ultimately bankrupted Rome, opened the way for Barbarian conquest, and plunged Europe into centuries of social and economic turmoil.

My wife correctly points out that the ultimate lesson from history is that plundering one group to serve another cannot last. So, I ask you, Gaius....is funding arts so important to you that, should the taxpayer fail, you would support a foreign war to raise these funds? Or would you merely tax Lafayette's taxpayers as severely as the Roman Senate taxed Romans?

Also, my wife dropped her beer she laughed so hard at your assertion that cave paintings 40,000 years ago were to "breed confidence for the hunt". My wife says that cave paintings are really 20,000 to 30,000 years old, not 40,000. She says that no one really KNOWS why they made cave paintings, but that they are not in the most accessibe areas of the caves, and they are not in continuously inhabited caves, either. So those two known facts make your assertion most unlikely. She says a more likely reason for the cave paintings is that they were used to tell others that the hunting grounds were good, or that they were not meant to be seen by most of the group at all.

Also, she would like me to add that as a holder of an advanced degree, and as the daughter of a PhD and retired UL faculty member, she is troubled that someone would make erroneous and unsupportable statements about the motivations of cave painters so long ago and try to suggest that their level of education, or their vocation with letters and languages, lends credence to their position.

My wife points out that her father's role at UL was two-fold: academic AND teacher. She says her father would never have lorded his academic status over another for fear that it would compromise his effectiveness as an educator.

If you know more than we do about history because of your vocation with ancient languages, then perhaps you'd be more useful to the community as an educator than an expert. No student learns anything from an expert telling him he's ignorant and uneducated--as you have on many occassions.


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written by realitycheck , August 28, 2011 - 07:30 pm
Great posts Ragin, "et ux"! See? Some of us "misers, curmudgeons & malcontents poisoning our civil community discourse" know Latin also!!!It's not really important nor useful but you seem to be impressed with yourself/it!

Really, Gay!! Multisyllabic verbage does not the Intellectual make!! (modern translation: A BSer can't BS a BSer!)
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written by Cracklin Patin , August 29, 2011 - 09:44 am
by ragin_cajun "Also, she would like me to add that as a holder of an advanced degree, and as the daughter of a PhD and retired UL faculty member"
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I have a Nobel Prize. So there. Walter has a Go-to-Hell Prize because he controls the blog.
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written by Gaius Cilnius Maecenas , August 29, 2011 - 02:04 pm
To ragin_cajun and his charming wife:

Glad I was a source of humor and pleasure for you two. Tell your wife thanks for up-dating my chronology on ancient cave paintings in France and Spain. It has been a very long time since I have read learned men and women on these cave paintings. Hopefully, Wikipedia will come to my rescue to refresh this content in my mind!

However, your wife's assertions on ancient Rome require deeper analysis. Her comments reflect Roman Imperial propaganda! Your wife is certainly correct about the excesses of the Julio-Claudian Dynasty!

Since the foundational roots of high French culture is Graeco-Roman culture, you two might want to investigate Greek paideia ["education"]: it was based on physical training, musical & dance training, and literary culture. The Greeks introduced a pattern of behavior that lasted 800 years [ca. 600 BCE to 200 CE]. The artistic system had governmental and private support. This is how it worked in a nut-shell: Each city had their sanctuary and its god or goddess' festivals. At these respective religious festivals, there were fierce athletic & artistic competition for prizes. Winning these prizes brought kudos [fame, glory, renown] to the individual victor, his family and his city. Later, in the 4th century, next to these sanctuaries, schools were opened to attract scholars and students from the known world. In ancient Athens, there were three schools, the Academy (Plato), the Lyceum (Aristole), and the Cynosarges (Stoics). These schools developed at these locations because the local sanctuary had a gymnasium and/or palaestra. Here youths did their physical training and contests naked. It was ultimately this Cretan-Spartan institution that spread through out all of Greece. Plato deals with the ridicule heaped on Greece by the "barbarians" for their devotion to naked athletes. It was out of this culture that beauty, morality and temperance were instilled in the Western tradition!

Your nonsensical ad hominems, I will ignore. We use words to communicate with each other. These words have a history in time and place. To cite ancient texts merely confirms accuracy of observation. It is a courtesy to this readership to enrich their humanity! Notice I attempt to use a word, elucidate its correct meaning, and translate it into modern English. This is how one shows respect to the readership here. This is how we learn from one another in a non-trivial fashion, worthy of our high French culture in Lafayette, Louisiana.

P.S. Study carefully the lives of Louis XIV, his brother Philippe I, duc d'Orleans, and (Louis' nephew) Philippe II, duc de Chartres & duc d'Orleans. When King Louis died, the nephew became 'le Regent' for eight years, due to the minority of Louis XV. These were all extraordinary men, brilliant military commanders and patrons of the arts. Read carefully the splendid French scholarship of Professor Anthony Levi.
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written by Gaius Cilnius Maecenas , August 30, 2011 - 02:13 pm
To [R]agin_cajun's Charming Wife:

Madame:

I just did my Google searches on Cave Art in France & Spain. I did not realize how many caves there were that left remains of cave art. The oldest are 32,000 during the Aurignacian period.

However, in Australia there was discovered cave art that is 40,000 years old. I had asserted 40,000 years of age. I missed it by 8,000 years---not too bad of a blunder. These observations do not discount your time frame, which is when the great majority of them were made.

After several days of reflections, I now recall where I had learned that these cave arts bred psychological confidence. It was an advertisement in the CIO Magazine [Chief Information Officer] about seven to five years ago. Once again, thank you for your correction of my chronology to this readership.
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written by eiswright , August 30, 2011 - 02:25 pm
What it boils down to with arts funding is a return on investment. When you look at the ROI from state arts funding for Lafayette parish in 2009, its over $10. See here:

http://acadianacenterforthearts.org/Images/Interior/lpaa/louisiana arts data.doc

When people go out to see a show or to visit a gallery or get a dose of great music and food at a festival, they don't just give money to that NGO. They go out to dinner before the show and go out for a drink after, generating business for and sales tax dollars from restaurants and bars.

There are some 22,000 full-time, part-time and seasonal jobs in the arts in this state a year. You think the money made there is just cash under the table? There are some 22,000 full-time, part-time and seaonal jobs in the arts in this state each year - and all 22,000 of those people pay taxes. Artists and arts administrators contribute to the system just like the rest of society. Trust me, these people aren't a bunch of leeches.

And the state and even local governments don't just blindly throw money at NGO's. There is a difficult application process enabling the state/local government to make wise INVESTMENT decisions about what will work. The arts is one thing - but when it comes to the social service NGO's who provide meals for the homeless or counseling for abuse victims, who can honestly say that that gov't funding for these services is not a necessity and that someone is going to fund them if government doesn't? As it is, with the pittance that most of these NGO's get from the government in relation to the mission and budget they're up against, people complain about their taxes at work there. Who would willingly fund it if the government didn't? Would you?

All that being said, this article wasn't your best, Walter. However, an op-ed is an op-ed. What these folks tend to forget is the OP part of it.
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written by Hope , August 31, 2011 - 11:23 am
I believe most NGOs could fund themselves, esp if they're valid, legit, meaningful Os. I believe they should be fazed out. I believe the arts in Laf parish can surely find private donors. I also believe in live and let live & that's whats allowed Acadiana's gay population to stay here if they want to. More than 30 yrs ago, I began hearing about this mardi gras krewe called Appollo & the tickets were to die for. That's not to say there isn't an undercurrent of holier than thou, you're going to hell, community out here. But I love the LGBT population here in Louisiana. I believe the community has been more accepting due to the prejudice that Cajuns suffered. I hope all our children can stay here if they choose and not have to worry about their safety or acceptance. Its not as if LGBT is trying to convert or recruit. It is what it is and I celebrate it in its glory! I'll tell you, there are a whole lot worse things to be than gay, and in jail or a grave is worse....
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